The cost of Brexit for us; the ordinary people

But until it does we won't know the full effects, no matter how many predictions are bandied about and shock-horror possible scenarios put forward.

Thank you Welshwife- spot on.

And no, it has absolutely nothing to do with our loss of income. As expats abroad, we just can't be considered as 'ordinary' people from that point of view- even if we are quite ordinary and, believe it or not, normal.

I have already stated yesterday, hand on heart, that my anti Brexit stance has very little to do with our own circumstances, which are not 'ordinary' and the 60% loss is only due to Brexit by 20%.

It is to do with the safety of Europe, our alliances and working together, be it for peace or for essential research, be it pharmaceutical, medical, or otherwise. It is about the chances and opportunities for our grandchildren in the future. It is because the massive environment challenges we face have no borders, and neither has the threat of terrorism and other kind of criminality. It is about not wanting to return to nationalism and closed mentality. It's about tolerance and the acceptance of others who are different. It's about the fair treatment of employees and workers, and so so much more.

I totally agree that our loss of income is totally irrelevant in this discussion- but served to illustrate how people can be seriously affected, especially if caught in a double whammy, like us.

No-one would dream of asking about income - but as Welshwife says, about how much, %ally to your income, you are personally prepared to lose for the Brexit cause. And the fact that many who have voted Brexit because of the lies they were fed- that somehow Brexit would make them better off, give them back opportunities they have lost since de-industrialisation, and for a better funded more efficient NHS - will not be happy bunnies once they realise how much they are being hit in the pocket, and that the NHS is still crumbling and being privatised by the back door.

Join the 'refuse to discuss and debate with jura' and attack or silence instead. Pretty daft I'd say, but your prerogative.

As for the 'very strange' veiled insult- well, there you go. I'd say that refusing to engage in a discussion, and choosing silence or attacks instead of debating- is either weird indeed, or a sign that one has no answer to give.

What? Brexit is going to happen Ana so that is a bit like asking someone not only "How long is a piece of string?" but "How long is an imaginary piece of string?"
Why not speculate? Those who voted 'leave' took a leap into the dark, they might at least let the rest of us know how it will affect them.

well yes- there can't have been bigger speculation than that vote in total darkness !

You carry on speculating then, trisher.

Even the Mail discusses how worried people are about the effect of Brexit now and in the future ;) today. Oh the irony.

www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-4020214/Half-UK-households-worried-Brexit-survey.html

But Brexit will go ahead. We had a referendum and the majority of those who bothered to vote, voted to leave. We live in a democracy; it's going to happen regardless of how much or little of their income those who voted to leave are prepared to lose, and what a ridiculous question to ask.

When have we ever had a say in how much of our income that we pay in tax for example, we are prepared to part with, never mind having a say in where it's spent.

I'mbeyond words at how much the Government has pledged for the cost of repairs to Buckingham Palace but there's nothing I can do about it.

I was fed up with the amount of legislation being forced on this country by the EU because not all of it is good. I was fed up with our courts being dictated too by an un elected and faceless group who have only their best interests at heart so I voted to leave; to leave an organisation I'd never voted to be apart of in the first place.

The referendum was initiated by Cameron who spat his dummy out and resigned when he lost the vote after saying at the very beginning that we would stay regardless of the outcome.

Yes, I'mthat no one seems to have a clue about how to handle the decision that's now been made but that's not just the fault of Brexiters it's also the fault of the remainers, who were so arrogant, they didn't have a fall back plan because they didn't expect to lose.

The EU isn't basing decisions on sanctions against the UK because it's better for them, they're going all out to punish us for having the temerity to leave. They're behaving like a group of play school bullies, so regardless of the personal cost, I'm glad I voted to leave and I'll be even happier when we've left altogether.

We are not discussing whether it will go ahead or not- but how people will react when they realised they have been blatantly lied to (NHS) and how much it will affect them directly- especially those who have very little already.

A totally different question. When the Daily Mail says so, surely it has to be true.

I thought you hated the DM with a passion, so how can it possibly be true? Sigh...

Everyone I know personally who voted Leave are tolerant, fair-minded outward looking people. They too want co-operation with the EU in matters of security and indeed, everything where it makes sense to work together. They do not to be governed by the EU, an EU seen as undemocratic, centralised and bureaucratic and, seemingly, set on a course toward ever-closer union.

The EU is also seen as economically flawed, mainly through the ill-judged creation of the eurozone for political reasons. My friends and family who voted Remain do not argue with this assessment but prefer status quo to the alternative.

Personally, I do not think leaving the EU should mean the abandonment of liberal values. We were hardly a banana republic before joining the EEC and I do not expect us to become one in future. We are one of the more tolerant countries in the world and many of us, both Remain and Leave, would not want it otherwise.

Are you saying the DM tells lies, Ana? Sigh.....

And that Ana is the whole point, oh the blessed irony of it all.

Forgot - sigh ... now it would be so so ilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

with an 'he' even.. and a big pinch of sarcasm.

Well said Cunco - I think I'll leave the Remainers to their sarky comments and join Anya.

I am totally convinced that this country will fare much better in years to come outside the EU, for the reasons stated and I'm so glad that I voted the way I did.

Another sad part is how people have still not understood how the EU works and how it is all done by elected people and the Beaurocrats are just the French word for Civil Servants. Despite the much larger physical area and greater number of population there are many less of them employed by the EU than the UK employs - and at the moment they do not have enough and are trying to recruit.

Sadly the calculations as to the likely actual cost of leaving and continuing annual costs - payments for pension costs etc that the UK agreed to - were not calculated and published before the vote,. It is not looking that it will be anything like as much saving as was said by the Leave campaign. it is the impact on the poorly paid I worry about.

The trouble is Cunco that although you are spot on in your assessment, it is not something that a lot of Remain voters on this (or any Brexit) thread want to hear.
They want to talk about 'nightmare scenarios' and the 'country going to the dogs' or
( a favourite) 'to hell in a handcart'. It almost seems to be a sort of death wish.
We are all interested in what will happen now, but all this constant doom mongering is pretty silly.

The irony of the Daily Mail saying so seems to have washed over you. Not the Independent nor the Grauniad - the DM...

I didn't take "a leap in the dark" trisher I thought very carefully before casting my vote. Why oh why do some of those who voted to remain assume they have the intellectual high ground.

I'm sure the EU will give us a very tough time for having the temerity to even want to leave their precious organisation, let alone do it, which for me only serves to confirm that we have done exactly the right thing by voting to leave this arrogant, self opinionated group of unelected (well only by members of their own parliament, and they would tow the line wouldn't they?!!!) group of civil servants,or whatever other name anyone chooses to give them, as well as the fact that in years to come, like other 'empires' before them, it will imo implode, and that we are ill be much better on the outside of the inevitable ensuing flak.

I didn't either smileless. Like you I thought long and hard, and was up to the morning of the vote, very undecided. As you say why do remainers always behave as if they're the intellectuals, and the rest of us country hicks?!

Exactly niggly and other countries may well follow our example.

Why is it "silly" to worry about the price that will be paid (mostly by the very poor) and what effect this will have across the country? When the last recession happened and the banks had to be bailed out many blamed the Labour government. there are indications that Brexit will cause far worse problems, but we are not supposed to worry? It seems to me perfectly fair and reasonable to ask what might happen. If those who voted to Leave don't want to address the problem, but choose to bury their heads in the sand that says something about them.