The cost of Brexit for us; the ordinary people

I would ask the same question Ana but Juragran knows I refuse to converse with her.

Totally bonkers!

What's totally bonkers, Anya, you refusing to converse with Granjura? Or Juragran if you prefer?

I agree, that's totally bonkers.
Why do you refuse to converse with her?

Long story DJ but let's say there's a good reason.

I mentioned possible loss of jobs through robots. It may or may not happen but plenty of people have discussed the possibility. Here's one report from The Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/13/artificial-intelligence-robots-threat-jobs-forrester-report

I have seen another article in 'The Economist' and I am told the EU has discussed the subject. As noted above, the Governor of the Bank of England included the topic in a speech.

There is quite a lot of information available about the funding of the Referendum. I have not researched it thoroughly but both sides received large donations from wealthy businessmen. In one table, I saw donations from Economists for Remain and from Economists for Leave. It was ever thus!

People "lost their jobs" when earth moving equipment was invented, when cranes were invented. What would you have us do? Uninvent these things in order to keep the masses in their jobs pulling rocks around and killing themselves in the process? I tell you what why don't we uninvent every bit of technology from the computer, to cranes, diggers..... Etc. then all those jobs can be done by humans who will have worked themselves to death by the time they are 35.

Robots are nothing more than precision built lumps of metal controlled by computers and programmed by humans. They cannot take over the world. They are used to make life easier . To do the jobs that are too dangerous and/or detrimental to health for an human. Take the noxious fumes from paint spraying as one small example.

Nobody would argue that technological change has brought major benefits but often it has brought initial dislocation to people as well. Railways, for example, created new towns and left others somewhat stranded. We might want to un-invent some technology, perhaps that which created weapons of mass destruction, but we do not have that choice.

The current discussion appears to involve a new kind of robot with Artificial Intelligence. It need building and programming, initially by humans, but it can also 'learn'. Initial examples might be robots that can walk like humans, park and drive cars. Let's hope it is only for the good but I suspect it will bring more benefits for some and more challenges for others.

People lost their livelihood when machines were invented during the industrial revolution and the home spinning cottage 'industries' were destroyed.

But the whole subject of Artificial Intelligence deserves a thread to itself. I think I read that Stephen Hawkins reckons it's the biggest threat to human existence there is, bigger than global warming; though that was pre-Trump.

Recent changes in technology and our industrial base means that we have a large % of the population for whom there is no 'rôle/work' - as we have lost the manufacturing industries that required lots of unqulified or semi-qualified workers, same for the mines, naval yards, docks, etc, etc, etc. I never use self check in supermarkets for that reason.

Not very long ago, you could leave school with very few qualifications, not being a particularly good reader or counter- and there were still jobs out there- jobs with a great camaraderie and community, people could be proud of.

With a larger and larger % of people without jobs they can do- and the few jobs they can do, they won't do (picking those sprouts for a pittance, etc) - then the delusionment, despair and anger will grow.

I truly fear the consequences of this- and in particular for the UK next year when people in the above category, many of whom voted for Brexit- will realise that it won't provide more jobs for them, prices will go up and up, there won't be better housing available and the NHS will not benefit either as promised. They are NOT going to be happy.

Perhaps I can ask again... in hope:

btw how much are YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE ON YOUR INCOME

roses and other staunch leavers - as you are being so jolly?

Perhaps I may ask .....who are these lovely posters that that Ana and I have 'chased off' the threads as you claim granjura or is that a bit of that post truth stuff we keep hearing about?
I don't discuss my income with anybody, since you ask.

Not talking about your income - but the proportion of income- no detail required about amount, as such.

No I won't name names - but the 'your attacks' didn't just apply to Ana, you are right- but several posters- I am sure you know who you are. Some of your posts have been very personal indeed- and then you (as a group) complain about others being personal. Pot, kettles...

According to the poll (and yes, we all know polls have flaws, but are still very indicative overall)

50% of leave voters are not prepared to be 1 penny worse off

that is, 59% in the North, 62& of Labour leave voters, 46% of conservative leave voters, and even...
39% of UKIP leave voters

Only 10% of Brexit voters are preapred to lose £100 or more per month to see it through.

I ( and I suspect nobody else) has a clue what you are talking about granjura but you do seem to be getting beyond rattled by Brexit.
Perhaps you should stay off any Brexit thread for a year.

Rattled - citing a poll doesnt equal being 'rattled'.

How I wish we could avoid Brexit for a year ... what a fabulous suggestion. In the meantime I shall make the choice as to what I discuss on GN or not- and will never be childish enough to refuse to discuss anything with anyone- lol.

And a Merry Christmas to you too.

I used the 'nobody knows what you are talking about* in regard to your bizarre claim that a group of us have hounded posters off Gransnet....a blatent lie btw.

Maisie: I think you are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Well, some people on here complain when they're just given links to follow so I thought I'd post some relevant bits for those who don't open the links.

Your original statement seemed to be implying that all wages experience downward pressure from immigration. The studies say that is not so. That it is the lower wages that are affected and even then it is minimal (1p per hour). Though I do appreciate that when you are very low paid even the loss of 1p per hour causes problems.

As for 'ordinary people', just who are 'ordinary people'? I think myself to be pretty ordinary in the scheme of things and I suspect that most posters on here feel much the same. Yet their economic circumstances and their skill levels are bound to be widely diverse. You really can't say people are 'ordinary' just because they are semi/unskilled; they are just one section of the 'ordinary people'.

blatant truth - I for one felt the need to have one month off. And others who are still in touch by e-mail have left altogether.

I won't be hounded by anyone though- unless I choose to stay off, as I recently did. Thanks.

btw I don't think they felt 'hounded' actually- just that there is only so much energy and time you can try to get blood out of a stone and such a low level of debate- where relevant arguments and relevant questions- are just answered with veiled or full-on irrelevant attacks.

As perfectly illustrated with my question at 10.52.14 and the replies that followed. Thanks for doing the job for me - very helpful.

I would think anybody who eats, uses fuel and has a foreign holiday every so often is fairly 'ordinary'.

I think I will join Anya in refusing to converse with you granjura as I find your posts so very strange.
Nobody in their right mind would discuss their income with you, even though you yourself talk of little else in relation of Brexit.

Getting back to normality, I agree that ordinary people probably means those who work for a living/retired ,and managing on either a low or medium salary/pension.They are not rich, and they are not living in poverty.So dd has the right description for ordinary people.I think.

Granjura was not asking how much income you had but how much you would be prepared to lose as a direct result of Brexit. I am sure she would have been happy whether you gave her a figure in money or a percentage. I can understand completely why she is interested as she has already lost a good amount to fluctuations and price rises due directly to the result. We too have lost value but as we still operate on UK accounts it has not yet affected us to such a degree - although our house has lost quite a bit of value - tens of thousands. This will only be a real cause for concern if we are forced to sell because of our position here.
Many UK citizens living in the EU for various reasons are very worried about their position - as must many EU nationals living in UK. It is a very worrying situation to be in. Maybe if, as is predicted, people are worse off and less certain of their position as to whether they can continue to pay the rent or mortgage or other bills as this whole thing progresses they will have some understanding of why others are so devastated.

But until then it's not worth speculating, is it? Who in their right mind would state on this site what percentage of their income they'd be prepared to give up just so Brexit could go ahead?

I wonder what percentage of their income Remainers would give up just to make sure it doesn't?

But many British people are affected even before it goes ahead!