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(236 Posts)
Jalima Tue 20-Dec-16 11:30:00

Evil in the midst of joy.
I am shocked, saddened and sickened.

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 11:48:10

It seems like Angela Merkel's generosity has backfired.

Christinefrance Tue 20-Dec-16 17:17:29

So tragic, a repeat of the incident in Nice, the death toll is mounting I hear. Seems like the lorry was hijacked by a terrorist, Angela Merkel must be regretting her generosity as Lillie said.

merlotgran Tue 20-Dec-16 17:27:42

Mowing people down with a lorry - a weapon of mass destruction. More appealing than blowing yourself up and there's a chance you'll escape.

I agree with the man on the Jeremy Vine show this morning who said people must now put away their phones/tablets and stop wearing earphones.

We need to be very, very vigilant.

KatyK Tue 20-Dec-16 17:45:07

There was a security expert on TV today. She said, as merlot says above, we must be very vigilant indeed. She said wherever she goes she always looks for the nearest escape route, keeps here eyes and ears open. Someone said that was sad, but she said it's common sense. I find people are not vigilant. I have posted on here before about people leaving unattended bags and no one batting an eyelid. Only last weekend we were out for lunch and there was a large holdall underneath a table where no one was sitting. I was just aboout to tell a member of staff, when a chap came back in for it. He had been outside for a cigarette. It is totally irresponsible. Apart from my DH and me, no one seemed to notice. People are not vigilant.

daphnedill Tue 20-Dec-16 18:08:14

I wondered how long it would take for people to blame Merkel. Let's not forget that the alleged perpetrator is from Pakistan - not the Middle East or North Africa.

According to the ONS, there are just over half a million people in the UK, who were born in Pakistan. That doesn't include people born in the UK of Pakistani heritage.

There are far more people of Pakistani heritage in the UK than there are in Germany and they still account for a high percentage of non-EU immigrants.

So...if they're all so dangerous, why haven't we had hundreds of people mown down by lorries? The answer is, of course, that the vast majority aren't dangerous, but that logic seems to escape people. The UK still accepts more Pakistanis than Germany does and we have always had the power to refuse all of them.

I would imagine Merkel does indeed have a few nightmares and regrets. However, I wonder what those people who criticise her would have done. Would they have left these people on the beaches of Italy and Greece?

durhamjen Tue 20-Dec-16 18:09:22

Police have released the man because of lack of evidence.

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 18:15:06

Vigilance is important, but I can't be spending every moment watching out for every escape route and eyeing up every person.
I must admit I have enormous faith in the UK intelligence service, although it's no good being too complacent. I've been more than happy in the past week or two to evacuate Oxford Street station in an emergency, stand outside Canary Wharf in the cold, have my bags searched at the theatre etc. We are on high alert, but it shouldn't stop us going places and enjoying ourselves.
So sad what happened in Germany. They don't have as much experience of terrorists as the UK and France, but I hope they deal with it in a firm manner. Zero tolerance.

TerriBull Tue 20-Dec-16 18:17:44

I like to think I'm aware. After the terrible Bataclan massacre it's put me off going to the theatre in London, my husband tells me I'm over reacting, but I see a potential threat everywhere and I certainly worry about my children who work up in London, as I did during the worst of the IRA campaign. Possibly that contributes to my paranoia. I think it's possible our intelligence is better than mainland Europe, Belguim and France's seem somewhat woeful in that respect and even Germany's is clearly lacking and given their open door policy I think they owe their public an increased security service. They still haven't lived down the mass sexual assaults on the women of Cologne last New Year. I think the UK averts more potential terror threats than the rest of Europe put together, but then we have had more experience of having to deal with this sort of thing for the past 40 or so years. However, we can't be complacent. Quite honestly most young men who commute and work in London have a rucksack/backpack with their bits and pieces in them, my kids do. I can't help notice on previous trips up to town rucksacks are placed in luggage racks, how can anyone go up and down the carriage enquiring of every passenger "Is that your baggage up there?"

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 18:22:43

I'm not blaming Angela Merkel personally daphnedill. Her own background - coming form East Germany - meant that all she ever strived for was effective immigration and integration. I can see what she wanted to achieve, but the sheer number of people coming into the country was crazy and the repercussions were not well thought through.

Ankers Tue 20-Dec-16 18:23:13

So...if they're all so dangerous, why haven't we had hundreds of people mown down by lorries?

They are vetted?

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 18:24:20

Agree with Terribull, IRA attacks taught us a lot.

KatyK Tue 20-Dec-16 18:24:49

I worked in Birmingham city centre at the time of the IRA bombings. We were constantly being evacuzated from our building and although it was frightening, we knew we were being looked after. I agree that we can't check on every bag but I do think it's irresponsible to leave a bage unattended and walk outside.

felice Tue 20-Dec-16 18:37:13

I have just come home from a lovely afternoon at the Brussels Christmas market.
Being me I got talking to an American Mother and Daughter.
They commented on the amount of soldiers with 'big guns'. they did not seem to know there had been terrorist attacks umm. I had to explain, made me wonder what news they get in the US. They are from Washington.

There were a lot of large wooden crates with Christmas trees on top, when i looked inside one it was a huge concrete/steel cube. They were at all the entrances to the pedestrian areas, and you had to wind around them.

We need to get on with our lives 'don't let the buggers grind us down'
They have been there since the beginning of the month.

The city is beautiful and full of tourists and locals,

KatyK Tue 20-Dec-16 18:40:03

There is a big German Market here in Birmingham. It gets thousands of visitors every day. The area is pedestrianised and the authorities have erected those big concrete blocks all around it which is reassuring.

Jalima Tue 20-Dec-16 20:06:10

If we have to have more security around such as felice mentions and all the solid bollards around open pedestrianised areas we must do so to enable our way of life to continue.
I am quite security conscious having worked somewhere for many years which was often on high alert so unattended bags etc, make me nervous.

Our hearts go out to the families of those killed, those who are injured and to the German people.

granjura Tue 20-Dec-16 20:09:55

There are no real indication btw that that was a 'terrorist' attack, or a lone wolf attack- at this stage, btw.

Anniebach Tue 20-Dec-16 20:11:24

The suspect has been released, I hope he wasn't harmed but think I hope in vain

Anniebach Tue 20-Dec-16 20:15:40

Loss of lives, families and friends grieving, so much fear too, for the German people and the refugees and immigrants who want a new life away from violence and poverty

Jalima Tue 20-Dec-16 20:16:28

It is a bit confusing; there was a dead man in the lorry but could that have been the original driver as the lorry was hi-jacked?

granjura Tue 20-Dec-16 20:20:01

A Polish man.

Jalima Tue 20-Dec-16 20:32:48

Yes, it was his cousin's lorry firm, so presumably the original delivery driver who was killed.

MaizieD Tue 20-Dec-16 21:28:56

So there is actually no proof that the attacker was an asylum seeker?

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 22:10:45

The suspect was released, however since his arrival in Germany he was known to the police for sexual attacks and insults. Is that not enough to call into question the type of asylum seekers landing on their shores?

durhamjen Tue 20-Dec-16 22:24:02

The owner of the lorry has identified the body through photographs as the driver, who was his cousin.
There is no proof that the attacker was an asylum seeker, Maizie. However, people know who the original suspect was and where he lived.