Berlin

I hope he rots in hell.

There was a discussion on the radio where someone was pointing out how many of the young men involved in these mainland attacks are Tunisian, disaffected petty criminals often with a history of drug and alcohol dependency, not confirmed and convinced Islamists. Except from the importance of being Tunisian, just as DD describes, So part of the answer must lie specifically lie in Tunisia; its government and culture.

Christians in the Middle East also use 'Alluha Akbar', but it's become an expression to strike fear.

I am in no way way condoning what this man did, but I can understand why he did it.

He came from a poor Tunisian family. The 'Arab Spring' caused all sorts of turmoil in the Middle East and this man wanted a better life, just like most people. It would appear that at this stage, he wasn't particularly religious. As a teenager, he drank alcohol, took drugs and was a bit of a bad character - not so very different from many British teenagers.

He got himself into trouble in Tunisia (where there's an outstanding conviction), found himself an illegal passage to Italy, where he became involved in criminal activity. At some stage, he was radicalised. It would have been relatively easy to do. His future seemed bleak and he would have been vulnerable to anybody who offered him some kind of future, even if it was in the afterlife.

Since leaving Tunisia, he had six years of a dysfunctional life. Nobody really cared what happened to him. Tell me, honestly, that any young men you know wouldn't have been vulnerable to propaganda in those circumstances.

I think that there needs to be a much greater understanding of what drives people to extremism before it can be defeated.

Hive you not read the thread granjura? It is so obvious posters are talking about terrorists,

Absolutely Maggiemaybe, terrorists rather than the ordinary Muslim neighbours we share. I live in a town with a large Muslim population. I was in the supermarket earlier when given a "free gift from Sainsburys' - it was a good gift for children, my husband asked the member of staff doing the distribution, are you father Christmas then? Yes, he replied, I'm the Asian version and we all smiled. We have a new family member who is Muslim, both the staff who delivered my on line order at a large local store were Muslim - born here, so local accents but both said their children loved the Christmas celebrations from school so they'd be having a special meal and gifts on Christmas day. Thank heavens for ordinary folks. One of these 3 people hugged me and talked about how important it is that we celebrate and recognise each others traditions while the world is in such a dreadful place.

I don't believe its at all helpful to suggest that posters who express anger or distress about the actions of the murderer in Berlin may be unable to recognise he isn't typical of the Muslim population. Or to comment that soldiers are taught to dehumanise the enemy and link that to Dresden. Yes it was an atrocity but it came on top of so many atrocities. I don't seek to excuse it by the way but to acknowledge the horrors in WW2 alongside the horrors we live with now. Well, I'm lucky to live in the UK where I feel very safe and very fortunate. I know we could experience an atrocity at any moment. I lived through the IRA campaign, live half an hour from Manchester which was bombed and half an hour from Warrington, where 2 children were murdered by the IRA.

It seems obvious to me that posters were talking about terrorists, not Muslims.

De-humanising the enemy is how soldiers are trained and how they survive- including the bombing of Dresden (a lot more people died that night- including babies and children, and grannies).

Who does the 'they' apply to- Muslims- or the very few who commit those atrocities- who are generally lost souls, not very religious and brain washed- with no understanding of the Koran at all.

We'll never be able to comprehend, will we, but presumably as well as believing it's their god's will and they'll be rewarded if they die a martyr's death, they have the ability to shut off all emotion as far as their victims are concerned. Even little children and babies...

This will surely be the new method of terrorism now as it very easy to do and the cowardly driver can escape by jumping out . What is wrong with these people who kill in the name of their `god`.

Yes went down shouting "Alluha Akbar" such a sacrilege to utter "God is great" while trying to kill people.

The suspect has been shot dead in Italy , BBC News

Yes Petra, no running

Seven times in the head and three in the shoulder and three shots missed.

I agree this is not the thread but I will say Charles de Mendenez was sitting down in the train when they grabbed him, pushed him to the floor and shot him in the head .

@TriciaF

I read about this. He's being tried under France's constitutional laws about discrimination. In France, it's illegal even to recognise that people are different, which is the opposite of the situation in the UK. For years France hasn't even attempted to have multi-cultural policies, because it doesn't recognise that people are different. It's a different way of thinking, which is now coming under pressure.

the young Pakistani run away when pursued by a German from the public- for the same reasons. Innocent but afraid that a young Pakistani would become suspect number one because this is what people 'expect'.

However, that really has nothing at all to do with the Berlin tragedy.....unless it simply highlights that sometimes police get it wrong.In the case of the German police, they thought he was just a low life and not a possible terrorist.

That was as series of tragic misunderstandings all round. In Menezes case, if he hadn't run because he was here illegally (visa had run out a while ago) then he would never have been shot.

He wouldn't have been shot if he had stopped when he was told to do so.

At least the German police didn't shoot an innocent man Daphne -Charles de Menezez ?

re: anti-racist legislation in France, i saw this:
www.thelocal.fr/20161222/french-mayor-to-face-trial-for-saying-high-number-of-muslim-pupils-is-a-problem

silverlining48 my family were there last year for the Christmas markets, staying right near where it happened. They went somewhere else this year, I am so thankful.

TriciaF- I agree. Historical reasons for that of course, as France had colonised most of North Africa- they committed atrocities during all that time, and during the Algerian war- and the wounds, both sided are still VERY recent.

We know Berlin very well and were there last Christmas. We know the area around the church where the market is held. This church was left severely damaged after the allied bombs as a monument to peace.
I feel frightened about what is happening to our world and very very sad for the innocent victims and their families who died or were injured in this latest atrocity.

I was very heartened to see an article about Muslims in Manchester handing out parcels to the homeless.
This is what should be happening now, rather than trying to blame Muslims or the German police for what happened.
As said earlier, we are doing IS's work for them if we continue to blame Muslims.