Biggest political hypocrite 2016

Durhamjen

I note you are posting again today so you may have missed my questions to you on 31st December @ 12.36 and 17.26. where I was responding to your posts re Nigel Forage.

Have you any response please.

Aided by MSM, of course.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/12/28/the-conservatives-have-out-borrowed-labour-for-a-century/
Strange this never gets in the media.

Daphne, that's where I got it from. If you look at the full publication, as a pdf, that's where I got the disclaimer from.

Ankers, are the far right's ideas on immigration and the economy not ideologically driven?

I agree with dj on this. Ideology trumps everything for those on the far right too. That's why the battle has to be for the centre ground.

I'm not so sure he's writing in a personal capacity. The publication is headed with a Fabian Society logo, but "This paper, like all publications of the Fabian Society, represents not the collective views of the Society but only the views of the author." That's just how they do things.

If you look at the full publication, which can be downloaded here www.fabians.org.uk/publications/stuck/, 'quite a bit of data. Much of it, of course, can't be predicted. However, Labour needs to come up with a plan and it just doesn't have one.
www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/01/03/shattering-the-governments-veneer-of-credibility/

For all the new members it might have attracted, it's losing voters at a faster rate and many of those are in the critical Midlands seats.

I would guess the economy, with immigration running a close second, dj.

No one been on to disagree

So what trumps everything for those of a far right persuasion, Ankers?

It wasn't the Fabian Society. It was the general secretary of the Fabian Society in a personal capacity.
The Fabian Society never gives a view.

'Fabian Society analysis paper
Stuck
How Labour is too weak to win, and too strong to die
Author: Andrew Harrop, General Secretary, Fabian Society
Date: 3rd January 2017
Facing the Future is the Fabian Society’s programme on Labour’s renewal. It brings together a broad range of voices to challenge the Labour Party to do better for the people who need it most.
Through events, publications and research, we are ensuring that Labour has the fundamental debate that it needs on its purpose, organisation and ideas. Labour must make itself relevant for the 2020s and broaden its appeal to people who rejected it in 2015.
This paper, like all publications of the Fabian Society, represents not the collective views of the Society but only the views of the author.'

Momentum are campaigning for McClusky, they claim Corbyns position depends on McClusky winning the UNITE battle .

Strange ,i thought it was the devoted corbynites who won him the leadership

The Tories have published a list of the fifty labour MP's most likely to lose their seats st the next election

Good post Daphne

To those of a far left persuasion, ideology trumps everything.
Anything else is a bonus.

But he's not getting votes, dj. The Labour Party is haemorrhaging support in the constituencies which matter. Try looking at lists of Labour-held seats during the Blair years and see how many have turned solid Conservative and that's without considering Scotland. Labour don't stand a hope in hell without winning most of those seats back. There are even indications that Labour will lose its gains from the LibDems in places such as Cambridge and Manchester Withington back to the LDs. Concern about homelessness in the BAME community is very worthy, but it's hardly a vote winner. In fact, you'll probably find that some people really couldn't care less and some who'd tell them to go back to their own country. Corbyn & Co need to stop behaving as though they're at a 1970s student debate and come up with some real strategies.

The Fabian Society has forecast loss of 150 seats for labour at next election, never mind we still have Corbyn to worship

I understand Daphne. For me I want a labour government , I want the homeless and hungry helped , to do so labour has to appeal across the country and the country will not want a far left government . I could go on about my socialist principles and stand with the fsr left whilst thr vunerable suffer for years, I will not, refusing to accept that the country has moved on eill not give a labour government , so much easier when you have a roof over your head and food in the fridge

This is Jeremy Corbyn being hypocritical, is it?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/homelessness-ethnic-minorities-rise-conservative-tory-government-theresa-may-david-cameron-welfare-a7502126.html

I think you will find it's how he gets votes.
He calls himself a democratic socialist. That's what I think he is.

Any A level Economics student would tell you that privatising the railways was doomed. Railways are a vital component in a country's infrastructure and cannot obey market forces for all sorts of reasons.

I feel the same about the NHS. Good health is vital to a successful democracy and place where people want to invest - but those are capitalist reasons. People invest in the UK, because they know it's a stable country with reasonable infrastructure and healthy, educated citizens.

There is, of course, the more emotional argument. We have all paid into a National Insurance scheme to some extent. We have foregone some of our income for a healthcare system to serve us when needed. I am totally appalled about some of the people who are now profiting from the money we have paid in. Nevertheless, I'm not against the NHS contracting private providers when necessary. My father had his cataracts removed by a private eye hospital, because the NHS couldn't cope and I'm not objecting. My big gripe is that the so-called 'internal market' is costing over £3billion a year in admin and legal costs - this is money which should be going to improved patient care.

I couldn't give a stuff if I'm not a 'true socialist'. My priority is that people receive the most they can from the country's resources in the most equitable way. I don't really care if that comes from capitalism or socialism - my personal belief is that a mixed, pragmatic system is best.

Daphne , you are spot on with possible reason Wales and Scotland have untill recently been strong labour , I know it is true in my very large extended family , we are all decendents of Baptists . I have never been able to seperate my faith from my political beliefs

Then I ask again trisher, if as you claim some are pretend socialists why do they join the Labour Party? I understand now Corbyn has raised the ugly head of militancy again some are going to think those who are not far left are not socialists, not true .

You definitely aren't a hypocrite then daphnedill ? I said earlier I thought I may fit Annie's broad definition of a socialist, I even agree with trisher on the issues of nationalising the railways and not privatising the NHS. I suspect despite his, I'd be seen as a back stabbing right winger because of my views on Corbyn. As for the issue of labour MP's nominating, voting for etc, I don't believe 270 or so we're in the first category.

I'm not even going to pretend to be a socialist, because I think capitalism has a place in a mixed economy. Nevertless, I would vote Labour if I thought that it had coherent policies which would result in a fairer society. Labour will never win an election if it dismisses people with views like mine.

trisher, The Labour Party has never been a party made of true socialists, if support for Clause IV is the only definition.

I don't know whether it's really true, but a high percentage of people associated with Labour have been Scots or Welsh and have been associated with the values of the non-conformist churches.

Concern for the poor can be traced back to John Wesley, who of course lived long before the Labour Party was founded. However, some of the working people Methodists encouraged went on to become trade union leaders and they did become involved in the formation of the early Labour Party.

There are people in the party Anniebach who pretend to be socialists but are not and some who don't even pretend. Real socialists would be advocating the return of a nationalised rail network and would not have introduced privatisation into the NHS.

Daphne, sorry your Methodism quote did amuse me. My g grandfather was a baptist Minister - not Methodist ?- and reading his journals of his work with Keir Hardie , you could be right

My son is currently in his first year at uni studying politics. When I asked him what he thought of the course, one of his responses was that he hadn't realised quite how many definitions of political concepts, including socialism, there are. His conclusio0n was that it was...errmmm...interesting. He's also been to meetings of the biggest parties and said the Labour one was the most frustrating because they spent most of the time arguing about the definition of socialism.

The UK has never had a successful truly socialist party comparable with the socialist parties in mainland Europe or other parts of the world. The Labour Party has always represented a broad range of ideological interests. Somebody said "Socialism in Britain owed more to Methodism than Marx".