More gains for Libs

Out of interest how do you or others think some are lying about how they voted in 1973?
Many will be dead now and cannot answer.
Rewriting history perhaps?

Is it a ruse for you and others to say that

The people I know who feel duped are not stupid by the way.

They had no idea of all the things that were to come.

They were sold a bit of a pup.

Things kept getting added on and added on to the whole idea.

I will google sometime how many rules and regulations have been added since it came into existence.

And there have been no votes on it since then.

By my reckoning, to make it fair, there should be no referendum about it again until about 2059.

#slightjokebutalsoslightnotjoke

I was on the point of commenting that many of us who voted to go into the Common Market are still alive but you beat me to it DD. Sometimes find myself losing the will, however
When between 8.01 and 8.04 did this change from Brexit to entering the Common Market? Those elusive goalposts again.

*against

But it was you who claimed that people change their minds all the time!

It is actually not true that people were duped in 1973. Some of the old headlines and claims have been dragged out. It would appear that some people didn't understand, despite being given the facts, or are lying about how they voted in 1973, because the numbers don't add up.

I voted in 1973 and am still alive.

Off to bash my head agianst a brick wall, because you clearly don't understand democracy and the point I was making ankers.

Many of the people who voted in 1973 or whenever are still alive today. Some in my family.
And they feel duped. And havent stopped feeling that way. So not fickle.

The world has changed a lot now, people are kept up to date and better informed than they were then, and the young especially are apt to change their minds a lot more nowadays.

So both are true dd.

Ankers It is so difficult to reply to you, because you are so inconsistent.

One minute you write "But people change their minds all the time dd. It could well be different again in 6 months and 6 months after that."

Then you write "A lot of people who voted for Brexit have felt much the same for 40 years! Hardly fickle!!"

So which is it?

PS the referendum was not about going into Europe.

We're the people duped? Did they let themselves be duped? Who knows for certain what people thought or what their reasons were for voting as they did. There ARE some who did their research, listened to the arguments and made a rational decision . That said, I think the arguments as put forward by LEAVE were frequently less than scrupulous (that £350 billion) and I also think the REMAIN campaign were complacent, never believing the vote would go against them. With a few exceptions (Ruth Davidson in the TV debate I saw) they were very poor at putting the record straight.
However, there were also those who couldn't be bothered to look beyond the headlines or research the matter for themselves. Do you remember that excellent video which at least one past member said she "couldn't' be bothered" to watch because it was all of 20 minutes long, presumably preferring to stick with the headlines?

I don't imagine there will be any more referendums ( general public) but think it will be all sorted out in Parliament.

The people I know, say it is they that were duped.

They thought that going into Europe was "voting for the common market", something like that.
They had no idea what else was coming besides that.

A lot of people who voted for Brexit have felt much the same for 40 years! Hardly fickle!!

If people are really so fickle that they change their minds every six months, there's a good case for not changing anything, considering how much damage Brexit is going to cause.

I don't know how many people have changed their minds, but it's a matter of principle. If democracy matters so much to the people who claim it does, people should be given an opportunity to vote on the deal once negotiations have taken place.

The next two byelections are in areas which are not fertile grounds for the LibDems but I will be surprised if the party does not see an increase in its share of the vote.

I dont think, is pushing my own view?
I struggle to see how.
Please tell.

But people change their minds all the time dd. It could well be different again in 6 months and 6 months after that.
How many referendums should there be?
In reality they wouldn't stop.

How many times should the scottish people have a referendum on independence. Once a year?
They vote to leave one year, find they dont like it very much, and vote to not have independence the next year?

If people dont like the Brexit deal, I am sure they will let the government know!
Often these types of things are "leaked" in advance. If enough people make enough noise, parts will be quietly dropped or amended, or put on hold[which may be put on hold and then quietly dropped]. This seems to be the way democracy is working lately in this country.

If the deal looked to be awful by the majority of people in this country[and I think this would have to involve many conservative voters being majorly uneasy]then there might be the possibility of a public vote again? Though I doubt it. I think the conservative party[I woudlnt guarantee it] would be so scared of losing power and a substantial number of seats, that they would look at altering major parts of the Brexit deal if they could.
My opinion.

Really? What do you know about LibDem policies?

You are pushing your own view. You don't actually know why people voted as they did.

Personally I dont the lib dems will get much further than where they were at their peak 20 years ago or so.
A lot of people at the end of their day, do not like their policies[which they have not changed very much?]

What about democracy?

If there's sufficient evidence (and I don't know that there is) to suggest that the public has changed its mind after the details are known, shouldn't people get a chance to express their views?

Those who voted to leave, on the whole, were more concerned about getting out of what we are in, than the deal to follow. Almost any deal to follow looked and looks more promising than what is left.

I sort of see your point varian but
a. I dont think any governemnt of any colour is going to have a referendum about anything anytime soon. Way too risky!
b. Having a referendum costs money
c. If the electorate said no, would then the deal have to be renegotiated ad infinitum, causing several referendum[s] [sp]

Varian, the Labour Party has my support , Corbyn does not, I am loyal to the party the same cannot be said of that man and his momentum party

Tim Farron appeared on the Sunday Politics today to set out the Liberal Democrat position on brexit. It seems utterly reasonable to me that, as those who voted to leave knew nothing about the deal we might get, and indeed nobody does at this point, the terms of the future deal should be explained after the negotiations and the Britsh electorate given the chance to accept or reject the deal. It is ironic that those who shout loudest about British democracy will not agree .
.

Annie I hope your excellent Labour councillors will be replaced by excellent Liberal Democrats. The LibDems are grounded in their local communities and will show you that you no longer need to reject a councillor or MP who is not a member of the party you have always supported. Ask yourself - does the chaotic Corbyn led Labour party still deserve your support?