UK govt. - effective opposition?

Ankers Yes I agree as well with you, and that was a perfectly good post 19.46.07
Also Monica at 20.15.29.
And while we are at it nfkdumpling 20.15.38
There are no absolute stats for defining reasons that people voted either way and it's high time posters here, and also in RL put the results of the referendum behind them, accepted it, and looked to the future.
It just appears bitter and twisted to keep going on and on like the Duracell bunny about how the country has been shafted etc.
If Monica ( who voted Remain) can see this, why not others.

Tricia, who are. The labour MP's who have been interviewed recently , apart from Corbyn, McDonald, Abbott and Thornberry ?

I disagree with you, MOnica, but am not going to bite. I don't want to get into a personal spat, although the evidence confirms my view.

MaizieD I haven't got all the stats to hand now, but I know that London, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, Cambridge (all Labour areas) voted Remain. Birmingham, of course, voted Leave, as did most of the small to medium-sized towns in the North East, Yorkshire, Lancashire and the Midlands - the ones which have been hit hardest by industrial decline and austerity.

Even in areas such as Manchester and Liverpool, people living in the poorer suburbs voted Leave.

One interesting fact which has emerged is that most working people voted Remain, while most non-working people (pensioners and the unemployed) voted Leave.

There are just so many divisions and it's absolutely vital that the reasons are found, because politicians now have the job of delivering people's hopes. Goodness knows what will happen, if they don't.

I agree. Good post from M0nica. And thank you for putting it so succinctly.

I remember hoping that the LibDems would back up Labour in the last GE. And they threw their lot in with the Tories instead - which led to their downfall (temporary I hope.)
Clegg was interviewed on TV today and spoke well.
I just wish the Labour party members would stick together if only to provide a united front against the Tories Then perhaps the LibDems would back them. But too many independent thinkers.
Ana - not sure why he changed his mind. Maybe his hatred of Cameron was so strong that he was blinded from seeing the other issues involved, which he sees now.

Yes, MaizieD, it is the first time I've heard it - mind you, I haven't actually been searching out reasons for people voting as they did.

Good post from M0nica.

Also it's been pointed out that the Liberals should be the obvious replacement opposition. But who are they? Whenever an opinion is asked for Mr Clegg always appears, but I've heard a rumour that a Tim someone is their leader. Anyone know what he looks like?

ankers I am a democrat therefore I accept that there was a small majority. However, my acceptance does not run to Brexit at all cost. I am concerned that the absolute best is achieved for our grandchildren. We need to leave them a legacy which allows them to flourish, in every way possible.

Goodness, that's the worst reason for voting to Leave that I've heard yet - just to spite those two.

Have you only just heard that one, Ana? I've been hearing it ever since 24th June and not just because I live in the NE. It does go a long way to explaining why areas such as ours, with low immigration, voted Leave. It wasn't about immigration for them.

dd Re the 63% Labour Remainers being urban/metropolitan. 37% (Leavers) doesn't sound like enough to account for voters in other Labour areas.

If a lot of people voted to leave for different reasons doesn't it also apply that the Remainers did the same? I know a couple who both voted remain purely because they thought leaving would result it WW3, two or three others because their DC worked/lived abroad - although why one living in Japan would be affected I still don't know -, some for economical reasons, some because they hate change and upsetting the status quo.

It was a difficult decision either way, but having decided we have to go with it. To go back now, change our minds, would result in being a laughing stock and being well and truly walked all over by the other EU members. I feel that right now we don't so much need a strong opposition, but a strong coalition.

ON the contrary Ankers is a respecter of democracy. She understands exactly how it works. We all have one vote and we do not have to justify how we use it.

Democracy, one person, one vote, is a very rough and ready system, it is not perfect - but it works and I do not know of a better alternative.

Varian The government set up the rules of the referendum and agreed that it would be based on a straight majority vote. It got that majority. The quality of people's decision making is neither here nor there I appreciate you were a strong remain supporter, so was I - but we lost and I think all those remainers, or remoaners as someone has called them, who continue to whine and complain about the result should ask themselves why they think they have a right to have everything their way all the time.

We lost, get over it.

I dont see or read all posts so didnt know you had accepted it daphnedill.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Well quite really.
But I consider democracy wonderful and fair.
A great equaliser.

Who said "the tyranny of the majority"?

I see from your post that you are no respecter of democracy, Ankers. Ironic really!

There were a number of interviews with people who thought there were too many non-EU immigrants.

Despite saying that "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others," Churchill also allegedly said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

Are you asking me, Ankers? I've already stated that I accept it, but the terms haven't been agreed and I'm very keen that the government does take everybody's views into account. The public didn't vote to be shafted.

I was told by someone that voted Leave that he thought the other Europeans were not giving us enough votes in the Eurovision Song Contest. He didn't know anything about the EU and didn't know how to vote but that made up his mind.

Someone else told me she voted Leave because her sister thought there were too many Somalis in Bristol,

Surely this shows how absurd it was to interpret a scant majority of votes ob a single day as the will of the British people,

From what I can make out, on another thread, whitewave seems to have started to accept the Brexit result.
How about you soon?

There was a variety of reasons for people voting Brexit. As there is for voting of any kind really.

If I were absolutely confident that good reasons had been put forward, I would mind much less.

Why?
What is the point of trying to find "good reasons"?

I realised a long time ago that
people vote for all sorts of reasons, some "good". some "bad", some "wrong", some "right", some "stupid", some for "reasons I hadnt thought of" and on and on.

People cannot be boxed or herded or cajoled etc etc a lot of the time.

It is their vote. Only theirs. To do with as he or she wants to do.
Whether they "waste" it, "throw it away", "dont use it", "be silly with it" whatever.
"Change their mind the very next day" yada yada yada.

Or even use it as "a protest vote"! Whatever. They can. They are allowed to.

Your frustration is not their problem.

You have no more or less votes, than they do. Your vote is no more or less important than theirs, it only amounts to one vote.

One tiny vote, in a great sea of votes.

Exactly, Annie! It was fear of immigration, fuelled by the drip-drip propaganda for years by the media.

The Leave side had better propagandists. They knew very well that people act irrationally, based on emotion rather than fact. They knew very well what they were doing, when they labelled the Remain campaign Project Fear, because it was Leave which really launched Project Fear with its scaremongering about immigration, Turkey's alleged joining the EU, a European army and all the rest of it.

Sonia Klien is on the long list for labour candidate in Stoke, the short list will be chosen tomorrow

The majority of voters only had the tv debates to make a decision on . Cameron was on every one, labours leader refused to take part in one. Labour was represented but it was not the party leader , Greens, Libs, SNP, Plaid , UKIP leaders were very much involved too. I can remember Alistair Darling taking part in debates but forgotten who else from the party.

No matter areas where there are a low percentage of immigrants voted to leave, it was fear of immigration . Apart from the cities Wales is certaintly not swamped with immigrants , but fear of immigrants, in areas of high unemployment , lack of housing, very low wages , serious shortage of doctors was , cause to vote to leave .

Labours campaign was crap

Nuttall would be at home in Trumps government. They have almost identical beliefs.

No, they don't care. It was all a big game. Nevertheless, I'd rather leave the guns and pheasant shooting to them and not shoot myself in the foot.