UK govt. - effective opposition?

Good post Gilly

daphnedill do you ever want to "slap" male politicians?

Here's the opposition response to this morning's Supreme Court defeat

A spokesperson for Jeremy Corbyn said in response to Theresa May’s Supreme Court defeat on Brexit:

Labour respects the result of the referendum and the will of the British people and will not frustrate the process for invoking Article 50.

However, Labour will seek to amend the Article 50 Bill to prevent the Conservatives using Brexit to turn Britain into a bargain basement tax haven off the coast of Europe.

Labour will seek to build in the principles of full, tariff-free access to the single market and maintenance of workers’ rights and social and environmental protections.

Labour is demanding a plan from the Government to ensure it is accountable to Parliament throughout the negotiations and a meaningful vote to ensure the final deal is given Parliamentary approval.

I think that Maizie because when you listen to what is being said in vox pop interviews, in surveys, and in a number of radio programmes the one thing that worries many people in areas of the country where labour is dominant (and made them vote for Brexit) is the surge of immigration into the country.

I am not making any value judgements on that, the majority do not sound racist, but I have yet to hear that the Guardian and its journalists are nailing their flags to the mast head for a clamp down on immigration. They are like so many right-thinking comfortably off lefties, very international and internationalist in their thinking. I probably think much as they do, but that is not how many core labour supporters think

The main problem that the Labour Party has, is that it has llost touch with its roots

JessM Yes, I frequently want to slap male politicians. It's a coincidence they're both female.

MOnica That is true in some Labour areas, which voted Brexit, but not in all, by any means. For example, Hartlepool has a very low number of immigrants and the percentage of immigrants in Stoke is below the national average. On the other hand, London and Manchester have a high percentage, as does Cambridge. Areas which have suffered economically tended to vote Leave, whereas those which have prospered voted Remain, regardless of immigration. It's probable that immigration became a scapegoat for people's anger. There's also the issue of culture. Areas with high numbers of elderly people also tended to vote Leave, regardless of the number of immigrants who lived in their areas.

The ridiculous thing about immigration is that the number of immigrants from non-EU countries is higher than from EU countries and always has been. There was no reason at all why that couldn't have been curbed, because the UK has full control over immigration from non-EU countries.

There was a vox pop interview with somebody before the referendum. A man was asked why he was voting 'out' and he stated that it was so all the Muslims would be sent home. Brick wall anyone?

I see what you mean now, MOnica.

I think that had Labour made more effort to help the former mining and industrial areas and been more positive about narrowing the income gap, instead of being perfectly relaxed about people being filthy rich, there might have been less worry about immigration because more people would have been in work and better paid.

It's all very well proposing that Labour core voters were bothered about immigration but 63% of labour voters voted Remain.

MaizieD I think you'll find that most of the Labour voters who voted Remain were in London, Manchester and Liverpool. If you take them out of the equation, Labour voters in small and medium-sized towns tended to vote Leave.

Brighton and Hove voted remain, and we are Green, Labour and Tory.

I said that there was a 'tendency', not that it was true in all cases. Let's face it, you're a bit idiosyncratic in Brighton!

all sorts here!!

I've just looked at the analysis of votes for Brexit in the NE, and the only place to vote 'stay' was Newcastle.
The MP for Gateshead said that the main reason for voting leave was dislike of Cameron and Osborne ( which was my husband's initial reason, though he's changed now.) A very poor basis for such a choice imo.

Goodness, that's the worst reason for voting to Leave that I've heard yet - just to spite those two...

But that's what so many others have been claiming, ie for many people, it was an opportunity for a protest vote rather than based on any kind of sound reasoning. Maybe you can understand why so many Remainers are frustrated with it all. I accept the result, because I have to, but I'm not happy about it. If I were absolutely confident that good reasons had been put forward, I would mind much less. It is so obvious that those who wanted to 'take back control' the most - and probably do need a sense of control over their communities and their lives - are going to lose out most.

This is what the boss of one of Europe's largest private equity firms thinks...

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-guy-hands-says-cut-wages-30-percent-twenty-years-private-equity-a7540986.html

At least he's transparent enough to say that he will be a big winner, which is why some big financiers voted Leave, but the poorest (ie those who tended to vote Leave) will lose out most. That's what many people have been saying all along!

What made your husband change his mind, TriciaF?

I am sure that if we don't take action (and history tells us that it will highly unlikely) to mitigate against the result and logic of free trade and globalisation - which we in Britain will now come up against as a result of Brexit, those poorest in our society will be the biggest losers.

dd, probably quite a few who voted to remain in the EU did so because of their dislike of Nigel Farage and all he represents.

Do you think so? I didn't. I voted Remain, because I truly believe it would have been the better option for the country. I can't stand Cameron or Osborne either.

I certainly don't think those two contributed positively to the Remain campaign.

Do they care?? Off pheasant shooting and giving lucrative chats - leaving us idiots to pick up the pieces.

It will be interesting to see what line Labour takes in the Stoke by-election. I must admit I have a very bad feeling about it, especially because Nuttall is an unpleasant bully. He was caught out 'embellishing' his CV, but nobody seems to care about that kind of thing these days. He is also on record as saying he wants to privatise all healthcare.

I really hope that Labour can get its act together and hang on.

No, they don't care. It was all a big game. Nevertheless, I'd rather leave the guns and pheasant shooting to them and not shoot myself in the foot.

Nuttall would be at home in Trumps government. They have almost identical beliefs.

The majority of voters only had the tv debates to make a decision on . Cameron was on every one, labours leader refused to take part in one. Labour was represented but it was not the party leader , Greens, Libs, SNP, Plaid , UKIP leaders were very much involved too. I can remember Alistair Darling taking part in debates but forgotten who else from the party.

No matter areas where there are a low percentage of immigrants voted to leave, it was fear of immigration . Apart from the cities Wales is certaintly not swamped with immigrants , but fear of immigrants, in areas of high unemployment , lack of housing, very low wages , serious shortage of doctors was , cause to vote to leave .

Labours campaign was crap

Sonia Klien is on the long list for labour candidate in Stoke, the short list will be chosen tomorrow