Political Correctness

I share the dislike of the phrase 'politically correct' as it only ever seems to be used in a derogatory way.

In answer to the question 'is there a place for pc', it's apparent from the political upheavals in the US, UK and other parts of Europe that many people have felt unable to express their views without offending what they see as the pc brigade.

The obvious Brexit example in the UK would be immigration imo. I live in a part of the country with high levels of unemployment and deprivation. We're also used as areas to which asylum seekers, refugees and it should not be forgotten, deprived white British people being sent out of the London area to keep housing benefit costs down. Our schools, hospitals and other public services are stretched, it's difficult to get school places etc in many areas. The difficulty is discussing these issues without matters either being dismissed (as in Jeremy Corbyn) or distorted (Nigel Farrage)

When most of us were in our teens, homosexuality was illegal. Thankfully, the kind of prejudice levelled at gay men and lesbians is rarely expressed in the UK these days. I see it as a good thing that the rights of the LGBT community are recognised and discussed sensitively by most people . I can't imagine the difficulties faced by people who believe they were born in the wrong body and want to transition. No wonder the medical profession are so careful about mental health/gender dysphoria issues, especially when it's parents of young children driving the agenda.

If wanting to approach these issues sensitively and not feeling its wrong NHS funding is available makes me pc, so be it.

And if she is screwed up, I feel sorry for the baby as well as for her. Or him.

thatbags bloody screwed up That will bring the PC brigade down on you, very funny though.

anya said: "I'm having trouble with this too. A woman feels she is in the wrong body and ought to have been born a man. Fair enough. She wishes to change into a man through treatment. Fair enough.
But then she decides to have a baby, a very womanly wish. Now I'm having problems."

I recently heard an argument which said that such a woman is mentally ill and should be treated for the illness. I was shocked at the time but such a person does seem to be bloody screwed up. I feel sorry for anyone having to deal with this kind of illness.

Neither can I now, grannypiper At the time there were photographs and articles about it. Now the nearest thing I can find is a vague reference to internet hoaxes, plus a comment that an ectopic pregnancy (which that would be) was very dangerous because other organs are not designed to release the placenta when the time comes. So I suppose it must have been a con.

Elegran I cant find any information regarding that on the internet.

It is not politically correct to use political correctness to avoid difficult situations. That is cowardice or political expediency.

Years ago, about the time I was having my children there was a very funny book doing the rounds, based on the premise that God asked his angels what was the most common wish made by mankind and they replied that it was women saying. 'Why can't men have babies? then they would understand'. God decided to grant this wish and all sorts of men in high places found they were pregnant.

I suppose it would be considered politically incorrect these days.

Oh I see.. I did not see anything about the original story. I should have researched before posting!
I do need to understand more about this. I am not sure, if I felt I was a man, but born with a female body, that I would want to become pregnant/breasfeed as that is such a 'female' domain.

Will ask a couple of friends who have more direct knowledge!

Well said MOnica Hard for me to understand that people can't/ won't see the difference.

I do not think a charge of political correctness has ever been cited for the casual attitude of those in authority to Jimmy Saville's sexually abusive behaviour. It was more a case of not wanting to kill the goose that laid the golden egg, in the same way that some football clubs have tried to shrug off stories of unsavoury sexual behaviour byor even convictions of their football stars because they cost a lot and the club is dependent on them for good results - and that means money. There was no 'political' correctness about the covering up of child abuse in schools, youth groups, and, as we now know, some football youth teams. It was fear of loss of reputation, money and a number of clear causes

To me 'political' correctness has got more to do with denying something is happening because it clashes with the approved views of those who should deal with it. Refusing to protect children because the crimes against them arise from the culture within a specific ethnic group (FGM and Honour crimes), because we should respect the cultural differences of these groups. In the past many people refused to accept that a child could be abused by religious leader or teacher, because people like that didn't do things like that.

I'm having trouble with this too. A woman feels she is in the wrong body and ought to have been born a man. Fair enough. She wishes to change into a man through treatment. Fair enough.

But then she decides to have a baby, a very womanly wish. Now I'm having problems.

No I am being PC. I do not agree with a woman who is undergoing treatment to become a man (I have no problem or issue with that) then stopping this treatment to be impregnated with donor sperm to have a baby. Seems she/he wants to have it all and If the NHS is footing the bill I don't think it is right.

If you mean that you are refraining from being rude, Firecracker that is not really political correctness..

Political Correctness prevents me from commenting at this present time.

Yes, Jalima. It's very hard to know what someone will want do do when they fall outside what Society deems to be 'normal'.

Yes, I was just interested to know if she will do so or want to carry on straight away with treatment after the birth

Why not on the NHS? I presume the transgender person is still a human being and a citizen?

I don't see any reason why a female transgendering wouldn't be able to breastfeed if they have halted the process in order to have a baby. They'll still have the necessary hormones.

On the NHS no doubt.

It's quite interesting, because I am wondering if the parent will decide to/be able to breast-feed the child

Pensdtemmon However to have become pregnant they will be women now even if they were designated men at birth.

I think it was that the person in question was designated female at birth and has a womb and ovaries producing eggs but was in the process of transgendering to male, then decided to become impregnated with donor sperm before completing the process to become male.

I'm not sure how this discussion started !
Ah, I thought it was that the term 'pregnant mother' was to be abolished and the more PC 'pregnant person' used instead at possibly quite a lot of cost to the NHS when there is, so far, only one pregnant person in the UK.

grannypiper I am sure I remember the publicity surrounding a male-to-female transgender person (or it may have been a still-male one) who carried a baby to term with the placenta attached somewhere other than in a womb. It was delivered by Caesarian.

Thank you Penstemmon for coming back to me in a friendly way, I appreciate that.

Yes we are all of ethnic origin. I thought it was easier to use this word than listing all the different countries that my students came from.

Yes I would have considered what a minority group said and then made my decision.

I am in the minority I know with my views and I suspect life will become IMO more PC and that is something I have to accept.

I think Monica had some very important things to say about child abuse cases being inhibited by PCness which is very worrying in my eyes.

Anyway it is goodbye from me on this thread as I rarely get involved in contentious issues, as I prefer a more light hearted discussion.

Yesterday there was news coverage about an allegedly highly respected barrister (and former supporter of Mary Whitehouse), who headed up a Christian charity, whose alleged abuse of boys, whilst documented in an internal report, was covered up and not reported to the police. Was that the result of "political correctness"? Was it "political correctness" that prevented people from reporting their serious misgivings about Jimmy Savile's behaviour?

An article in the Guardian in 2010 reported:

"There seems to be no end to the scandals buffeting the Roman Catholic church about the abuse of children; most recently in Germany, where the headmaster a school associated with a choir once run by the pope's elder brother Georg Ratzinger has been exposed as an abuser. And there is no doubt that a lot of children were damaged for life by priests, and that this was mostly covered up by the hierarchy until recently. But was the Catholic church unfairly singled out? Aren't all children vulnerable to exploitation, especially when they are poor and unwanted."

Children in boarding schools and in other institutions where they are away from their families are more vulnerable to abuse and sometimes their abuse has been covered up to save the reputation of the school, church or other institution, or of powerful people.

The Rotherham case is just one among many of such cases which cross all classes and cultures and the subsequent report found a number of reasons why this abuse was allowed to continue. These included the ignorance, negligence and prejudice of the police and the inefficiency and understaffing of the child protection team.

I think political correctness (a phrase which I think is misleading) is, in general, a very good thing and is I think an extension of sensitive behaviour and good manners. However, in the case of the "expectant person", I do feel that this is perhaps misguided.