Prison works?

In order to have prisons where all prisoners take responsibility for the chores - e.g. working in the laundry, kitchens, gardens etc. you need to have lots of staff. The private companies who have taken over our prisons are commited to reduce costs to increase profits - so they do not employ enough staff.

Very few prisoners are highly intelligent, well-educated privileged people who choose criminality as their "profession" or who are basically evil - most are disadvantaged people, either through innate lack of ability or acquired mental health problems who have had poor parenting, poor education and poor mental health services.

The solution to the problem and to reducing the number of victims of crime is to invest in social care, mental health services and education. And youth services - there used to be excellent youth clubs and youth support services in our county - they are now ALL gone, every single one.

That was my point really Ana. Life would need to be pretty miserable for having a TV and meals provided (I don't expect they're exactly 'cordon bleu') to seem like a luxury.

Unless the young man has something going for him in real life, he won't have an incentive to stay out of prison.

I remembered reading this article in the Guardian about a Norwegian prison island:

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

There was another one about Virgin and Timpsons, who have programmes to employ ex-offenders:

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/20/rail-company-helps-ex-offenders-virgin-trains

Food for thought?

That's because due to lack of expectations probably from birth doesn't allow for the kind of interaction or formality of even having a dream or a belief other than what they have always known. Prison represents somewhat better living conditions for some with some quality or regularity of purpose, with shelter, food, heating and contact than nothing. I have family who can't or wont turn their lives around purely for the sheer effort it would involve. To some prison is a rest from trying to deal with what else their existence presents

The prison officers used to come to the school where I was governor, to tell the kids what prison was like. They brought along grotty stained old underpants (laundered of course) and handed them out, to show what you get issued with when you get admitted.

I don't know anyone who has either been a prisoner, worked in prisons or had regular visits tomorisoners who see it as a holiday camp.

I'm pretty sure issuing new prisoners with stained underwear, no matter how immaculately laundered, doesn't happen now.

And was it really supposed to act as a deterrent?

Mykuppatea I agree. For some it is a step up. Mates, food, bed to sleep in, free education, warm and clean. Some people have to make do with a shop doorway.

I do not think prison works. I think something like a working farm or factory would be better. At least they would get some sort of training, shelter and food as well as being trained for work. Make them pay for their keep with work.

I used to visit a prison for younger adults thought to have a possibility of turning their lives around. An officer told me that many of these young men, in single cells, had never before had a room to call their own and were excited at the prospect.

We lived in Norway for 3 years, in Oslo.. I have never heard of this prison strangely enough. I think prison should be a deterrent not a holiday camp. Yes, they do lose their liberty but that is not enough. They need to be made to be useful and pay their way in society along with all the other youngsters who work hard and keep out of trouble. Sometimes I think prison is an easy option for some of these criminals.

I have more concern for the people that they rob, assault, harm than I have for the criminals. They had the same chance in life that others had, but they chose to rob, steal and bully to get what they want in life. I have a huge respect for the prison wardens though.

Many inmates need basic education. Most need the chance to learn skills to fit them for employment in the outside world. Exercise and sport are also necessary to maintain physical and mental health.
Bang them up and throw away the key just isn't enough.

The main thing that worries me about prisons is that there seems to be a lot of sexual assault, which to me is horrifying. That is if we believe what we read in the papers and see on the tv. I think that if that is the case the prison wardens should be held to account because people are sent there to reform, not to entertain long serving in-mates. Is it true that people are raped and sexually assaulted? Has anyone known of anyone in prison being sexually assaulted? It doesn't seem to stop crime anyway does it?

It's not stopping crime because we have not got it right. As others have said there are models in other countries that make a better job of things.

You will never stop crime completely - but the mess our criminal justice system is in gives us no chance of even chipping away at the edges.

Does the prison visiting scheme still exist?
When we lived in Hull I had a friend who visited Hull prison regularly, and she thought it was another positive way to make time pass for the prisoners.

There's this charity, TriciaF:

theclinkcharity.org/

It's funded by one of the late Duke of Westminster's daughters.

Good post Luckygirl. I used to work occasionally in Strangeways prison as a GP.

link.huffingtonpost.com/click/8883194.5591/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g_dj0xaVY4M1J6b3JKNCZuY2lkPW5ld3NsZXR0ZXItdWs/58853a96289acb7c158b4691Bcb39f963

Maybe more of our policemen should do this with the youngsters, and show they are human.

There are schemes in some prisons to help prisoners to learn. This sounds very interesting.

theconversation.com/education-behind-bars-why-university-students-are-learning-alongside-prisoners-71664

It obviously requires more staff, and therefore more money.

There's this prison choir initiative too: www.choirsbeatingtime.org/

I don't know anybody personally who's been in prison, but I've taught a few pupils who've ended up in prison for various reasons.

They haven't all been underachievers or from deprived families. However, with hindsight, none of them have been team players. Anything which encourages them to work collaboratively for a positive outcome will be a good thing - whether it's singing, a team sport or working together in a kitchen/restaurant.

Thinking about it, it wouldn't be a bad idea if society itself were more collaborative and respecting of others.

Those of us who think that the prison system doesnt work, certainly at present as it is being privatised, do not automatically lose our compassion for the victims of crime you know, and I resent the comments from the more strident on here who make these accusations. Brutal treatment in prisons only does harm; to those on either side of it.Yes, some offenders need to be locked up for the safety of society, and yes, there has to be some sort of punishment of crime or the whole foundation of society would collapse, but sticking people with mental health problems/drug dependency/illiteracy/behavioural problems, into a cauldron of intimidation and violence, locked up for 23 hours a day is not the answer. Those on here with direct experience have told us this and we should listed to them. And as for prisoners jumping the queue for hospital treatment, nonsense! Being in prison is not luxury, you spend 23 hours a day, with a stranger, in a room the size of my box room, eat slop, cant wear your own clothes, cant decide when to shower, cant attend family events such as weddings, funeral, christenings,dont see your children grow up day by day, and still some ignorant people think that prison should be harder?

Prisoners don't have to 'eat slop'.

I agree that the rest of your final sentence is of course true GillT57, although they can sometimes attend funerals if it's a close family member.

The Minister could alleviate the crisis very quickly if there was a reduction in the heavy tariffs being given out. Which, I understand, is more the reason for there being more people inside than "we are catching more criminals".

So a documentary about Acklington prison forty miles south of the Scottish border makes the government give prison officers in London and the South East a pay rise of between £3-5000.

That'll do a lot for morale.

I do wish we had an effective opposition. This government is presiding over the destruction of many of our public services. I've two close friends who were prison governors and my work took me into many prisons. Prisons have always had many more prisoners than officers, though the current ratio seems to me to be both dangerous and unsustainable. Prisons run without major incident or riot because the prisoners reach some kind of agreement with officers and wing governors. Once that has gone, riots ensue. I'm not being melodramatic when I say I don't believe it will be so long before there are murders in our prisons, including the murder of prison officers. We need more staff, better regimes with education and other programmes. We need better alternatives to custody than we currently have. We may need new prisons as our Victorian prisons cost so much to maintain but we do not need more prisons.

It's the suicides that are the problem; six murders and over 100 suicides last year. Obviously not enough officers to watch.