The Tory way of governance

Oh, and if it wasn't for Corbyn asking for this, these letters would not have been published.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/surrey-county-council

Back to the Tory way of governance - or do as I say, not what I do.

politicalscrapbook.net/2017/03/tory-mps-fought-cuts-to-their-own-council-after-backing-them-for-the-rest-of-the-country/

Rather unfortunate analogy there, daphne.
The reason lots of people support Corbyn is because he wouldn't use a stealth bomber.

annie I have never ever shown support for Corbyn, even when you did. I thought he was a plonker from Day 1 and I thought the people who supported him weren't much better.

Nevertheless, I think the media has been (nearly all) very negative and unfair. Corbyn has been vilified for the wrong reasons. I understand why Corbyn and the original Momentum gained support and traditional Labour supporters need to understand that you weren't reaching out to many potential Labour voters. For them it's not about being loyal to a party, but finding a party which represents their values and beliefs.

IMHO Corbyn is politically naive. He has virtually no leadership qualities, but I don't believe he actually wants to destroy the Labour Party. If Blair had appeared on the scene in 2015 as a newbie without his Iraq baggage, he would probably have wiped the floor with the Cameron Conservatives, but the Labour Party was already tearing itself apart.

I sometimes think that Corbyn and McDonnell say the right things, but it's as though they're using an air rifle to take pot shots rather then using a stealth bomber to hit their target.

The Labour Party might very well have had its day anyway. There are not enough old-style working class to make up a majority. I can't see the way forward for them.

Then Dsohne, perhaps you have an explanation for - I will remain leader untill the job is done ?

Thank you for correcting me on the Libs being around before the eighties, confirmation that Lloyd George did exist

But he's right! It's childish, but that's the level to which politics has sunk.

I don't agree that Corbyn wants to destroy the Labour Party. That's the kind of comment that anti-Labour Party activists will seize upon with glee.

Some loyal supporters don't seem to grasp that a political party is to represent people and that people don't exist to be loyal to a party.

I think for John McDonald to claim the Tories are in disarray is so funny, pot and kettle

Me a Tory?

Some just do not grasp the difference between a loyal Labour Party member and a loyal Corbyn - I will save the world when I stop hiding - supporter .

Corbyn wants to destroy the Labour Party , he did say he would stay leader untill the job is done

One thing I have never been and never will be is a Tory! The problem I have is that I don't know where I belong on terms of political parties.

I have only once voted Labour, but if I'm honest, I'm not a socialist in the strictest sense of the word. The fact that Labour is worried about losing votes to Ukip tells me something about the values of some Labour voters.

IMHO Corbyn is a plonker and possibly a stooge. I don't disagree with what he proposes, but he and his supporters seem to have few communication or management skills. I certainly couldn't support him as a leader and I think there's zilch possibility that he'll ever be PM. On the other hand, I'm not a tribalist and could never see the Labour Party as some kind of sacred organisation.

By the way, Momentum itself is disintegrating. There are at least three movements in Momentum: entryists, traditional Labour and the younger, politically naive members. Lansmann always intended the latter to dominate. He saw it as a kind of people's army to motivate younger people, who didn't vote. My DD never joined Momentum, but many of her friends did. They have become disillusioned, because the traditional Labour people are dominating discussions. Many of them have quite right wing social values and (according to both my DD and DS) spend hours arguing about minutiae.

Well, one thing I have never thought of anniebach being is a Tory!
rofl

There are many in the Labour party, there are many Labour voters (including my family) who think along the same lines as anniebach.
So - if you don't support Corbyn and McDonnell, Momentum et al you must be a Tory?
My DB would be astonished at being thought of as a Tory (and very . Perhaps some people can see that all political parties have problems at the moment - perhaps they are realists?

I agree dd the Conservatives are in disarray which they and their press seem to have brought on themselves, but AB would rather support them then the current, democratically elected, Labour Party for all that she purports to be a Labour Party member - very sad to read.

The Conservatives are in disarray anniebach. The difference between them and Labour is that they're experts at covering it up. Labour could and should learn from them.

I'm not sure what you mean by claiming that the Lib Party was only formed in the 80s.

The LibDem Party was only formed in the 80s, but the original Liberal Party was formed in the nineteenth century and was formerly the Whigs.

I don't agree that Blair was 'Lib lite'. The Liberals have always been the party of free trade and liberal social values, which is quite distinct from New Labour. Of all parties, it's been the most consistent with its views for over a century.

I don't think Blair was 'Tory lite' either, although people on the left portray him as such, an opinion fuelled by right wing trolls to discredit Labour.

Blair set in motion the legislation for academies, which made it easier for Gove, but it was never his intention to have the free schools and academies we now have.

The original academies were a last ditch attempt to improve failing schools. These schools were dire. At the time, the constraints of the National Curriculum meant that headteachers couldn't implement the kind of curriculum which was appropriate for pupils.

For example, there was one school where only one pupil out of a whole year group achieved 5 A-Cs at GCSE. There was a high teenage pregnancy rate in the area, so the head wanted to increase the time available for PSHE. He wanted to spell out to the the pupils the reality of teenage pregnancy, raise aspirations, so girls didn't think it was the 'only way' and, for those who did find themselves pregnant, improve knowledge of childcare. The National Curriculum meant that these pupils had to study traditional subjects, which the head felt were irrelevant. Blair took the decision to free heads from the National Curriculum by turning the schools into academies and allowing schools to decide what was best for their own pupils.

Gove used the legislation to allow all schools to 'privatise' themselves. The first Gove academies were schools which had been judged as outstanding by Ofsted, which then set about marketing themselves to cherry pick the best pupils.

It has resulted in the destruction of local authorities, which has had a number of effects,including the inability for local authorities to plan school places. That's why so many people can't find places in their local school. Ironically, control of schools has moved away from parents and local decision making to central government.

The problem I have with the Blair government re eductaion was his obsession with micro-management and his use of league tables, which have reduced schools to attainment 'factories', with so many schools gaming the system.

It's unfair to blame Blair for today's schools. He certainly wasn't responsible for the reintroduction of grammar schools.

Good grief, labour is claiming the Tory party is in disarray , labour

It is Rosesarered, always the extremes, always the good old way voters,

the lib party now was only formed in the eighties this is forgotten

Exactly, because the UK is a middle of the road sort of place for politics ( and most things.)

Blair was and is labour , he had the sense to realise the party had reach out to middle England voters to win an election, he won three ,

Blair was not 'Tory lite' at all, more ' Lib Dem lite'.

Blair is now blamed for decisions by a Tory government . He more honest and far more loyal to the Labour Party than that pathetic excuse for a leader the party has now

Blair takes flack from the press, he doesn't shriek - your harassing me and hid behind a glass door , leader? He couldn't lead a cub pack

JessM, I agree with your comments, particularly the point that the Blair government could have done more when they had the big majority. It may be heresy to some but if we had a Blair government now I suspect there would be more focus on improving public service, less on slashing and cutting staff and services. Just one example. It's interesting to me that the Blair government continues to be blamed by many in the Labour party for its current difficulties. It may have been 'tory lite' but it was less tory than the current government.

I think part of the problem with Blair for a lot of people is that alongside some of the positives (much more money for schools, renewals of a a lot of schools and hospitals) he pursued a lot of Tory policies. These have paved the way to some of the excesses of Cameron, Gove et al.
One example is starting the Academy system. It was all set up waiting for Gove to sweep in and ramp things up.
The privatisation by back door of aspects of the NHS was also started under Blair.
Many other examples - so anyone with a bit of a left leaning tendency sees him something of a Tory in a red outfit.
I remember my DH, struggling to influence policy under Blair (relating to fuel poverty, insulation of houses etc etc) saying that it felt all the more disappointed in the government when you had voted them in. They could have done a lot more good while they had that big majority. And they didn't.

I'm never quite sure whether it's left-wing or right-wing keyboard warriors who continue to be negative about Blair. I cringe when I see him called 'Bliar' or a fascist and the only thing people ever associate with him is Iraq. Being a 'Blairite' is seen as a term of abuse.

Unlike other 'elder statesmen', Blair's name has not been forgotten. Heseltine, Clarke and Major were all members of the 'nasty party' but I bet few people can actually remember what they did. Now they're towards the end of their careers, they appear to be affable and gentlemanly, whereas they were anything but.

The Tory way of governance, denied twice by May in PMQs.

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JessM - I believe its a great pity that Blair isn't respected now. His government did some good things - yes we'd all have liked it to do more (re privatise the railways anyone) but, the positives from his government are many. The invasion of Iraq was of course the disaster that the majority of people in the country predicted it would be. I was on the Glasgow march and whilst we didn't achieve the aim of stopping the war, we did say loud and clear, not in my name.
One of the tragedies for me, of the current Labour leadership is it seems to seek to blame someone who hasn't been the leader for ten years, for all its current problems.