English Scots for YES

What hypocrisy? The UK collectively voted to leave the EU. Scotland is a part of the UK so why should they be given preferential treatment anymore than anywhere else inside the UK? They had their referendum in 2014 and voted to remain inside the Union, and as part of that union you have to accept the majority vote as you do in any organisation. Once we've left the EU, Scotland will be able to have another referendum and if they want to go, then so be it, it'll be a pity, but if the majority want it all we can do is wish them well, and ultimately joy of the Euro!!! I think your hatred of England is far deeper than indignation over Scotland dj.

DJ How on earth do you come to the conclusion from my remarks regarding the "academic papers" (loose term) that you invited me to read, that i have no concern regarding Welfare sanctions ? And quite frankly if that is the standard of research then no, i have no interest in reading a report which at best was written and put together by a sixth form pupil.
Where on earth do you get the idea that Scots were mislead ? Do you really think anyone believes M.P's or do you believe everyone North of the border is so cretinous that they have the inability to think things through for themselves ?

Exactly gp. No one com believes MP's these days except with a big pinch of salt as it's well known that they ALL, without exception have their own agenda. The Scots like everyone else are perfectly capable of sifting through pro's and cons of information coming out of both Westminster, Holyrood and elsewhere, and making up their own minds as to the best way forward for Scotland. How patronising to suggest that they are somehow lacking in political nouse and are so easily influenced to make decisions they don't fully understand!

silence

In an Ashcroft poll after the independence referendum 47% of those who voted no to independence did so because they were concerned about losing EU membership.
They were told they would stay in the EU if they voted no.
Now they are told they have to leave the EU, and again are given all sorts of misinformation about how they will not be able to stay in the EU if they become independent.
That is now thought to be false.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/10/independent-scotland-would-be-welcome-to-join-eu-say-green-meps

They now could have an opportunity to vote on whether they want to stay in the EU or in the UK.
What's wrong with giving them that chance?
What are you frightened of?

Nothing, most of us agree that they should have a chance to vote again. if Scotland wants another referendum and if they do, and they vote against the Union then so be it.You have been asked though durhamjen why you are so for the Scots voting out.You appear to dislike your own country , England, in a way that I find curious.Not just on this thread, but over the years, you have always said things along the line of 'wish the border would move closer my way' and how wonderful ( ! ) Sturgeon and the SNP are.why ?

I live in the north east, which gets a raw deal from a Londoncentric government.
Strangely, lots of people on here think that Hadrian's wall is the border, thus proving they know nothing about the North East and Scotland.

My country dislikes my family, with them being from mainland Europe, and the UK voting to leave the EU. We still do not know if they will be allowed to stay. That has gone very quiet, even though it was supposed to be the first thing in the negotiations. All May talks about now is not being able to have an agreement in time.
In the meantime, my family cannot make plans.
If Scotland voted to leave the UK and stay in the EU, lots of people would want to move north, possibly including my family.

Can you show me where I've said I hate England?
I hate the way some English people behave. I am ashamed of the way some people in England behave. Not surprisingly.

I can understand hating a particular government, been there, done that, Hating the country of your birth is quite beyond me, but there you go! Looking round the world I personally think that I and my family have been and are, extremely fortunate to live in the UK, presumably that's why people from other countries are desperate to come here! Mrs May was perfectly willing last Dec to offer the assurances you seek dj, but sadly the EU were not, making any agreement one sided, which could present a lot of problems for UK nationals domiciled in Europe. If you were in this situation I'm sure you would be the first to say that she had a duty of care to these people as well as people domiciled here?

The North East doesn't have any more a more raw deal than a lot of other areas. We had a holiday in Berwick on Tweed last year and met a fellow Norfolk Dumpling who'd married a local girl and moved up. He said how much better off the North is over the East of England. My nephew in Cornwall complains too how bad things are there. London is a different Country.

(And I know where Hadrians Wall is. I've even seen a bit of it. We went looking especially. Very underwhelming)

I don't dislike your family DJ. I don't know them. But I do have Dutch and Germain friends and my decision to vote to leave the European Union was not against them, or anyone else in Europe. I am not anti European or any other nationality. In fact my Dutch friend can't wait for Holland to leave the EU too! She's very upset that Germany is now, in effect, taking control of their armed forces.

I don't hate anybody whoever they are or wherever they come from, and I can't imagine that anyone hates your family dj why on a earth would they? I voted to leave the EU, not Europe, it's the EU I have issues with not the people of Europe or anywhere else come to that. My lovely Dutch, German and French friends understand this perfectly, and respect how I feel, without necessarily agreeing, but certainly, in some cases, expressing misgivings over certain aspects of the Union. Mrs May cannot give one sided guarantees, leaving others hostage to fortune. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking, but everything to do with the fact that it would be morally wrong for her to do so.

Morally wrong? It's not morally wrong to use people as hostages or bargaining chips?
Your morals are not like my morals at all, obviously.

Again, niggly, where have I said I hated the country of my birth?

durhamjen Yet again you demand someone answers you, maybe you should afford others the same courtesy.

I have done, grannypiper. Perhaps you should read more carefully.

durhamjen you are , like me, from Yorkshire, now you live in the North East, this fact still makes you English, so why are you ashamed to be so?
'Londoncentric' is a much bandied around word meaning very little, since we have been ruled by Westminster for so very very long.Dorset isn't near London, or Devon but you don't find people living there complaining or being ashamed to be English.We have a long history of ruling ourselves here,fantastic countryside and much to be proud of.
The country does not hate your relatives, that is a very over emotional phrase.
If you all want to move to Scotland because there is a chance it may be able to stay in the EU, that will be your choice.

Durhamjen and there you have it in a nutshell ,anyone who doesn't want to be part of the UK HATES ENGLAND!Thats the same nonsense we get constantly told in the media...we hate the english...eh NO ....I have an english son in law who is voting yes next time and an english grandaughter ,several english aunts and cousins and even english friends ...as have most of us its not ABOUT England its about Scotland and the right to have control of our OWN country.We dont want Westminster ruling over us....how hard is that to understand.I hear alot on these threads about nasty nats and abuse ....it would be fair to say that a hell of a lot of abuse is slung at us ,vile abuse even some who sink so low as to say Andy Murray should have died at Dunblane because he didn't oppose Independence .On TV yesterday there were comments made that we shouldn't have a "better" health service than England and that the NHS should be country wide so everyone is "equal" so we're expected to go backwards to accomodate the rest of the UK who are mismanaging THEIR NHS ? We may well make mistakes when we get independence but they will be OUR mistakes and not foisted on us by people who have no interest in us at all .

Excellent post, paddyann, and a good point about the NHS.
Another good reason to move the border!!

No, you do not have it in a nutshell..... durhamjen has denigrated England and the English many times even though she is English herself.
It has nothing to do with the Scots at all.
Many of us on here have said that if the Scots want another referendum and vote to leave so be it.
I, and others wonder why durhamjen seems to prefer any country just about to England, it is baffling, and the answer seems to be that her chlildren have married Europeans and now they don't feel welcome, though all that this country is doing is actually saying no to unlimited immigration to the EU for the future.

durhamjen the post you say is excellent has nothing to do with yourself at all, as paddyann is talking about Scottish people.

The thread is about Scotland, roses.
You are putting words in my mouth again.
Read the bloody news about EU migrants and how unwelcome they feel, and how many of them have already gone back.
You are like a terrier, who gets hold of something and will not let go. The story gets more and more lurid as it goes on.

Many on here have said the Scots shouldn't have another referendum.

What the hell are you on about now roses? Did I say paddyann's post was about me?
Don't think so.

Calm down and stop swearing.

I've just looked at the link from Sun 09-Apr-17 14:32:02
presumably all results are from polls and we know how unreliable polls are.

Re the Canadian idea - Canada has always been a popular destination for emigree Scots. They would still be part of the Commonwealth and HM would still be their Head of State.
Brilliant idea (can't see NS wanting that!)

The fact is that Scottish people do have a lot more spent per head of population than other parts of the United Kingdom because of the very advantageous Barnet formula.

In spite of this the NHS in Scotland is badly run, as is the Scottish education service (which in pre-SNP days was amongst the best in the world) and the centralised police force and so many other public services. The SNP are appallingly bad at doing anything other than campaigning for separatism.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/its-time-snps-terrible-record-government-was-exposed

A few years ago we went to a Jewish wedding in Scotland. The bride and groom were both Scottish but lived in London. The wedding ceremony was conducted by their London rabbi, who was a very jolly chap. He said "I do love coming up to Scotland. I always bring a big stack of NHS prescriptions!" But I don't think even the SNP could blame him for the parlous state of the Scottish NHS.

Heaven's I wouldn't have thought so!! Would Canada either?!!
I can't help but feel that if you had a relatives living and working in a European country dj, your attitude would be very different! A one sided agreement would certainly leave anyone in this position wide open to refusal from the EU to any reciprocal agreement or one that would amount to blackmail. Ok for these people to be used as pawns, but not the other way round?!! A reciprocal agreement is the only way forward, which Mrs May is more than happy with. Like roses, I fail to understand why your relatives suddenly feel unwelcome here, when previously they presumably have been.