English Scots for YES

Granny 23

" Pogs Yes John Swinney and Angus Robertson did say that as reported on the BBC BUT they also said a lot more but the BBC and others chose to concentrate on that bit. "

I know exactly what they said as I watched both of their interviews in their ' entirety '. Swinney is definitely available to watch as it was on BBC Daily Politics.
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" It remains incomprehensible to me that the Labour Party & the Liberals actually voted to permit the Snap Election when this was patently obviously against their own party's interests"

That says it all, proves my point. Of course you are wrong the SNP didn't feel it was obviously against their own interest, it was the SNP belief in the Fixed Term Parliament Act that made them abstain, that's what they said!
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You then go on about the 'tail wagging the Labour dog', state the only Electoral Pact Sturgeon is looking at is with The Greens. That's not strictly true surely, unless of course you split hairs about the difference between a Pact and a Progressive Allowance! Sturgeon offered both Labour, The Lib Dems to 'FORM A PROGRESSIVE ALLIANCE' (coalition).

Sturgeon will join any party to kick out the Tories it seems but oddly when the SNP has the chance handed to them on a plate to see the Tories kicked out by a legitimate vote they didn't have the bottle to vote for it. Saying they won't stand in the way of a General Election but not voting for it was peculiar and leaves people to make their own conclusions as to what lies behind it.

So who do you think is more suitable to negotiate Brexit?! Who else would have have the experience or clout with the EU? Personally I can't see one person so I'm genuinely interested.

Granny23 For once, I agree with you and hope that June will be the end of May.

Granny23 Glad you had declarations galore of intentions to vote for snp because you certainly wouldnt get them in my village, you would get your "heid in yer hauns" at every door. we never so much as see a snp canvasser, but then we dont have any buckfast swigging bravehearts living amongst us

Only in your dreams Granny23!

Pogs Yes John Swinney and Angus Robertson did say that as reported on the BBC BUT they also said a lot more but the BBC and others chose to concentrate on that bit. It remains incomprehensible to me that the Labour Party & the Liberals actually voted to permit the Snap Election when this was patently obviously against their own party's interests. If they had voted against (and the SNP would have joined them) then they would have 3 years to rally support for their Parties while TM would have had egg all over her face, would have been forced to carry on with the poisoned chalice of Brexit negotiations against a back drop of Parliamentary discontent, a backlash from the country as the welfare benefits cuts begin to bite deep, and, once the Expenses Fraud MPs are brought to book, struggling with little or no majority. Instead she has been handed, on a plate, a GE at the time of her choosing, with so short a run up that the other, strapped for cash parties, busy with local elections, have no time to get their act together, whereas TM will have all her finance and plans, secretly already in place. This GE will assuredly give her a bigger majority and another guaranteed FIVE years to pursue her Hard Right policies - unless she pulls the same stunt again at a time of her choosing.

I see newspaper headlines today screaming that Sturgeon wants Labour to win the election and will be working with Labour towards that objective, allegedly because Labour would have a softer approach to an Independence referendum. This is the same SNP tail wagging the Labour Dog story that the unionist mainstream media peddled at the last GE. It was untrue then and it still is now. Having heard Nicola live from FMs Questions today she was saying the opposite i.e. that Labour has no chance of defeating the Tories nationwide, therefore the only way to protect Scotland's interests is to vote SNP. There is however rumour of an electoral pact between the SNP and the Scottish Greens.

It will probably be dismissed out of hand as a fabricated report but for what it's worth - our SNP canvassers, chapping doors last night for the Local Council Elections in 2 neighbouring small towns, had extraordinarily good results, with many voters raging at TM for denying the people of Scotland the right to self-determination, allegedly because 'Now is Not the Time' and stability is essential and then declaring a GE on a whim, in the middle of an important Local Campaign. These actions have demonstrated the impotence of Scottish MPs, MEPs and MSPs under the current undemocratic, winner takes all system, more clearly than any amount of rhetoric could do. Declarations galore of intention to vote SNP locally and Nationally and YES in the referendum (which few wanted until they were denied the chance in no uncertain terms). TM has advanced the Independence cause by leaps and bounds, because of her arrogant, dismissive comments and refusal to discuss or compromise (quoted by one as 'My way or the Highway')

A wishful but clever thought from one punter -

The beginning of June will mean the end of May

Far North

It does in my book.

Why

Because the Fixed Term Parliament Act has clauses that gives Lee way as to the Fixed Term of 5 years being cut short and Theresa May calling for a vote in Westminster calling for a Snap Election was one of them.

Are you saying that the SNP believe so much in the Fixed Term Parliament and do not agree with anything other than the government serving 5 years , even though there are opportunities for the opposition to reduce the 5 year period?

Why would they believe that if their whole reason, their goal is to get rid of the Tory Government ? They should have been like rats up a drain pipe , front of the queue to vote for the opportunity to get rid of them.

Sorry but it there is no flowering of the facts , the SNP showed some hypocrisy on Wednesday by not voting Yes.

Kezia Dugdale asked Sturgeon why the SNP abstained in the Scottish Parliament and Sturgeon tried to blame Labour for backing the Tories.

What for? Voting for a General Election to give them the opportunity to get into power and kick the Tories out. I thought that was the SNP mantra but their rhetoric does not match their actions by not voting for a General Election.

I think the SNP have lost the plot on this one.

"Believing in" a fixed term parliament, where the government doesn't seize a chance to try to strengthen itself and to extend its rule by another two years, is not the same as being "happy" with it.

Granny 23

Yes they are! Do you read or watch the News?

All day yesterday we heard from the likes of SNP John Swinney (Deputy First Minister of Scotland) 'stating' the reason for the SNP abstaining was because the SNP believe in the Fixed Term Parliament'.

SNP Angus Robertson gave the same reason for the SNP abstaining:-

"We are supporters of the Fixed Term Parliament Act, and that means that parliaments should go their term." He went on to say they (the SNP)"absolutely" relished the prospect of an election,".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39640394

It's not weird for the SNP to want to keep a Tory Government for as long as it takes for them to hammer home how dreadful they are and how separating Scotland from the rest of the UK is the only way to get rid of them.

The Liberal Democrats welcome the chance to take seats from the Tories as they care about the whole of the UK and campaign against hard Brexit for the whole of the UK. We need the Brexit deal to be put to the British people so we can choose between a bad deal and staying in the EU.

Pogs said They are obviously happy with the Fixed Term Parliament , which means another 3+ years of a Conservative Government Not at all! Rather aghast at the prospect of another 5 years under Right Wing Tory rule or perhaps longer if the Tories pull the same Snap Election trick again.

Labour had already stated they would vote in favour of the election so, as Granny23 says, it made no difference at all how the SNP voted.
They have voted against the government many times​ in the past, only to be massively outvoted by Tories while Labour abstained. That's what was confusing.

Labour may genuinely hope to win, or at least to make enough gains to unsettle the hard Brexit line that was being taken.

Well by abstaining they certainly didn't show their rhetoric matches their actions to get the Tories out.

They are obviously happy with the Fixed Term Parliament , which means another 3+ years of a Conservative Government.

Very weird.

Even more simple than that Varian, Just a demonstration that it makes not a jot of difference which way Scotland's MPs vote. Abstention is at least recorded as 'not in our name'.

The much bigger question is - Why did Labour vote in favour? From where I'm standing it looks like political suicide on their part.

The SNP do not want an election because they have nothing to gain and a lot of seats to lose. It's simple -they put the interests of the party first as usual.

Why did the SNP Abstain from voting for a General Election today?

The reason given 'The SNP believe in the Fixed Term Parliament.'. Sorry, you what.!

I honestly do not understand why after listening to 'years' of SNP rhetoric that is Tory hating, Westminster Parliament hating, more recently repeatedly saying Theresa May is not elected so has 'No Mandate', does not want Brexit and Scotland voted overwhelmingly Remain, why the hell didn't they vote for a General Election?

I would have thought the SNP would have been first out of the stalls, viewed a General Election as an opportunity to get what they want.

Why do I feel the SNP have acted rather peculiarly today by abstaining , then calling for other parties to ' join them '
in a coalition.

Deja vu of 2015 me thinks

Oh no. Not more parties FarNorth! The ones we've got are bad enough! I know what you mean though. Some of the existing parties already seem to have mutated into quite different ones from their previous incarnations.
Absolutely don't want to break away from the UK though. United we stand and all that!

If Scotland were to become independent, the SNP would not automatically be running it.

There would then be opportunity for other parties, including some which may not even exist yet.

Good post varian.

ThanksJane

Gaun yersel' varian!

Sorry, Granny23, I think you know that these perks were only possible because of the advantageous Barnet formula giving so much extra funding to people in Scotland, but maybe they have worked as bribes. The question is "how long will it take for people in Scotland to decide they can no longer put up with the gross mismanagement of these extra funds by the SNP?"

You know as well as I do how badly Scotland (once renowened for its excellent education) has now dropped to the bottom of the international league tables, how disastrous the centralisation of the police force has been, to say nothing of the problems in Scottish health and social services.

These failures have to be laid at the door of the SNP whose only priority is the destruction of the United Kingdom.

I know that the Tories have helped your party a great deal in recent years because you have shown you can damage the Labour Party and that has helped the Tories to regain power, and today's move by Theresa May may help you even more, but I hope that sooner or later the Scottish voters will look at the shameful record of the SNP and reject them once and for all.

So Varian Free Tertiary Education & Prescriptions, The under budget Forth Crossing, reopened rail lines and numerous road improvements, the record number of senior pupils passing highers, the subsidy to alleviate the hardship caused by the bedroom tax, the Junior Doctors accepting their contracts with NHS Scotland without striking, the success of renewable energy projects, the moratorium on unconventional oil and gas extraction, - I could go on all night - these are all according to you of no benefit to anyone except SNP supporters? Or perhaps you believe they are all part of a devious plot to bribe people to vote for her party?