Could this be the start of a nasty period in Britain as Brexit starts to hit?

Why are some posters so happy to think well of EU intentions, but not so happy about our own Governments intentions? It doesn't make sense.
All EU immigrants here and British abroad could be relieved about the future if the EU had agreed with T May before Christmas to guarantee status.

I meant the intentions of the EU Parliament.

Their intentions are clear - the members of the groups doing the petitioning are very happy this evening - this is a matter of principle for us. All this the Govt are saying (Peter Bone on Newsnight) about 5 years residence means staying is an automatic right is not exactly how the HO is interpreting things - any excuse and they are refusing people however long they have resided.

"Well the Lords have passed an amendment to give EU nationals the right to stay here (and not be used as bargaining chips)."

As I said in my post earlier:

" As for the House of Lords Ammendment tonight I will remind people the longer the delay in triggering Article 50 , the length of time the 'ping pong' goes on between the House Of Lords and Parliament, the longer the anguish goes on for EU Nationals here and also our UK Nationals living abroad in the EU Nations."

If the matter of 'Reciprocal Rights' cannot begin to be determined due to 'process' and the EU will only begin negotiations after Article 50 is triggered then I remain of the opinion the Lords have actually made the problem worse for those citizens abiding in other nations the '28' Nations that make up the EU by lengthening the period before Article 50 is triggered, 'possibly'.

Guy Verhofstadt ' cannot ' make any decisions unilaterally so whilst his latter comments are welcomed they do not amount to much ' at present'. Hopefully the European Commission/Parliament may be totally behind him but even so until Article 50 is triggered, or the EU Parliament vote on his proposal without requiring Article 50 to be triggered nothing can nor will be done.

Happy for the European Union Parliament to prove me wrong!

Well the Lords have passed an amendment to give EU nationals the right to stay here (and not be used as bargaining chips).
So time to write to your MPs and express your views. Use WritetoThem.com
Would not be a bit surprised to see this backed in Commons as so many MPs have constituents with EU spouses or industries that rely on EU labour.

Personal comments don't help debate DD

That's a formality now Djen and I don't think you can cling to the hope that we are not leaving.

I don't know why the government doesn't take you on as an advisor roses. You seem to know everything about the future.

We haven't left yet, roses.

Gill The British people who voted in the referendum could not do so with the welfare of EU Nationals in mind.They had to do what they thought was best for Britain.

I don't think we will ever be going back to the EU Welshwife however, in the future,
If the EU implodes, there well may be a loose coalition between the Northern European countries , a handful this time not the 28 that there were, and it may well work.As it is for the forseeable future though, we will be doing our own deals.
Of course, those who voted Remain don't like it, but although I wouldn't be so rude as to say 'suck it up', everybody will have to get used to the idea.

It makes for difficult evenings as their home as her son has had to go back to living with his parents to try to save up a shedload of money to pay legal fees, and he was a strong remainer too!

I can honestly only think or hope that people did not realise what they were voting for when they voted for Brexit; I shudder to think that anyone voted deliberately for this malicious, vindictive and unfair state of affairs.

I employ an EU national, and she is terrified. I have said I will help her with any form filling, but this situation is disgusting and I feel ashamed of the people who have caused this situation with little or no thought.

Don't know what to say, GillT. Maybe in future she'll think more carefully?

If it's not to do with Brexit, why are EU citizens also being asked to fill in massive forms for citizenship?

I bet not many people know about this, either, until it applies to them.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/30/scrap-insurance-rule-stay-at-home-parents-eu-tory-mp-sarah-wollaston
Even if you've lived here for 20 years before you have a child, you have to have private insurance when on maternity leave, otherwise you lose your right to permanent residency.

How can foreigners living and working in the UK trust the government when things like this happen?

Indeed welshwife and we can be sure that the terms and conditions will not be as we have them now. we will likely have to be in Schengen and in the Euro. This is a slowly unfolding disaster. Getting back to the Singapore born lady that I started the discussion about, yes, perhaps she should have been aware of changes to regulations, but who is? And surely when one has lived somewhere, legally for many years, it is not unreasonable to assume that any subsequent changes to the terms and conditions of residency are not going to be backdated. Ironically, a friend of the family, who voted very strongly for out of Europe ( and believed everything that was said by the loathsome Farage and equally loathsome Murdoch press) now finds her son seperated from his new Indonesian wife who cannot get a visa to live here with her husband, despite them having met while she was living and working legally in Britain. The wife returned to Indonesia to sort out some family business and now cannot get a visa to return and live with her husband. Somehow the family friend didnt think that the immigration controls would apply to her family. She was quite up front about her main reason for voting out; too many foreigners ( her words).

Excellent post, Welshwife.

That's been the problem for ages, the way the government changes the guidelines to suit itself.

Some EU citizens have been told they have no right to stay here, and are not being given citizenship after filling in 85 page forms. Those forms were not intended for EU citizens. They are for non-EU citizens wanting to stay, like the Singapore woman.
So why are EU citizens being denied the right to live here? We are still part of the EU.

I know a family who have moved from Spain to Ireland, back to Spain, back to Ireland, to Poland, and are now going to Austria. They refuse to come to the UK because of their perception of the way foreigners are seen in this country.
Their perception is correct.

There maybe 'no going back' roses but there will always be the allure of rejoining - albeit on not such good terms as we have now - once the real 'benefits' of Brexit become apparent!

I started that post ages ago after I read one way back and then had a phone call so many appeared in between. I was not getting at any of the last few posters - sorry!

Oh please! The EU Guy Verhagstadt has said that he wants to give UK citizens rights to become EU citizens and the application would seem to be quite easy - he has made a number the statements over the months. We here are reasonably sure we will have the right to stay but the worry for many of us - especially those of us retired - is the healthcare situation. Hopefully they will agree to keep the reciprocal arrangements - which I believe are cheaper for the UK than if we all come back! If they do not do that then it will be financially impossible for many to remain.

I belong to one of the groups which lobbied the House of Lords. All the groups with any EU citizens living in another country have linked together. Letters from all groups were sent to each peer so they all had the information. Many of the peers sent very nice replies unlike some MPs who were less than polite to some of their ex constituents - forgetting of course they could well become constituents again. I don't suppose they thought their replies would have been published for all members of the groups to see!
A number of peers met with members of the groups and indeed some were called to give evidence to the Parliamentary committee chaired by Hilary Benn.

The feeling of UK citizens living in EU was overwhelmingly to support the EU people living in UK in their fight to remain. Many of them have been there for a great proportion of their lives and most if them are well qualified people doing jobs the UK needs their skills for. There are however a worrying number talking about obtaining jobs in Continental Europe to be certain of their future.

As to the poor lady deported to Singapore. The visas for these people married to UK citizens changed only about four years ago - prior to that it was a six month one then a five year which morphed almost automatically into a Visa of long duration or indefinite stay. I am aware of this as we have a family member married to a Thai. In between the 5 year visa being applied for and granted and the Thai lady arriving back in UK the rights changed. It was the Border Control people who told her husband that even though they were married and a five year visa had been paid for she could only stay 30 months and then needed to reapply for the other half (and pay a fee) and then keep on applying. They have solved the problem by moving to Thailand.

Maybe this lady and her family were not aware of these changes.

I agree wih dmj. There is no talk of British citizens having to leave Germany. Until Brexit has taken place nothing will be said but one thing is clear, those who get German citizenship will have it fully, but those who get the British will only ever be second class as to be truly British you have to have been born in Britain and have a British mother.

(Or has the law been amended since2008?)

DD1 was born in the Uk so her son has more chance of becoming a British citizen than those doctors living and working there.

Azie a well argued and great post, and sums it accurately how I feel, and thankfully less cross and bad tempered than my previous post! I apologise if I have offended anyone by telling the truth, but I get so exasperated by trite 'taking back control' type comments. This country is fast heading towards getting a dreadful reputation for our treatment of people who were not born here, and I for one find it shameful.

What a brilliant post Azie, couldn't have put it better.

Oh FFS! I have just come back on here to read this and yet again, ad nauseum, those who voted Brexit have hijacked a thread and are telling those of us who voted remain to 'suck it up'. Well, actually, I am sick to death of people who have voted on the basis of lies, telling me that I have to put up with the impact of their ill considered vote. As for those of you daft enough to think that things are going to get better in the work force, boy are you in for a shock. It is regulations from the EU that protect the workforce, provide maternity rights and rights to time off to look after family etc., quizqueen you are wrong, as a remainer, I do not blame the mythical huge numbers of immigrants for shortages in GP surgeries/school places/house building. I am smarter than that and realise that these shortages are caused by deliverate under investment, but blamed on immigrants by the red top press. If this was the basis for your vote you have been misled.

We will be leaving the EU.....there is no going back.

Yes, they were bound to do that. Strange how some who claim to despise the very existence of the House of Lords welcome its input when it suits them!

The EU has no need to decide anything until May hands them article 50.
There is no need for them to do anything.
Theresa May could refuse to do it. She could say she's changed her mind.
We are the ones who are upsetting the status quo, not the EU.