Could this be the start of a nasty period in Britain as Brexit starts to hit?

Well said POGS
All the Lords have done is assert their muscle.......but the reality is the the HOC has the last word, and it is just delaying tactics by the Lords.

The problem is the EU are playing the same card over 'EU Nationals/Reciprocal Rights', there are more than one party at fault.

I understand the argument the UK could 'unilaterally' allow EU Nationals a right to reside , but equally so could the EU Commission. There has been Nothing/Nada/zilch/ coming from Brussels to give any indication they want to stop using Citizens as pawns in their negotiations. They are playing a harder ball than Theresa May for sure.

EU Nationals by the way are those living outside of their own country from the ' 28 Nations ' in the EU and Theresa May must do all she can to protect those UK Citizens living in the other ' 27 Nations ' when we Leave.

Theresa May has stated this:-

"Rights for EU nationals in Britain, and British nationals in the EU: we want to guarantee these rights as early as we can. We have told other EU leaders that we can offer EU nationals here this certainty, as long as this is reciprocated for British citizens in EU countries.".

There has been numerous amounts of coverage reporting how Angela Merkel and Donald Tusk have 'refused' to agree to any 'Reciprocal Rights of EU Nationals' UNTIL ARTICLE 50 has been triggered.

As for the House of Lords Ammentment tonight I will remind people the longer the delay in triggering Article 50 , the length of time the 'ping pong' goes on between the House Of Lords and Parliament, the longer the anguish goes on for EU Nationals here and also our UK Nationals living abroad in the EU Nations.

At least Theresa May has tried to obtain EU Nationals Reciprocal Rights but if the EU Commission refuse then I think for the sake of those UK Nationals in the other 27 Nations she has a duty towards them and doing ' what it takes ' to ensure their protection , her job is to protect UK Citizens as Prime Minister.

Golly Azie09, I'm flipping annoyed at your ridiculous , alarmist view that Britain today is teetering on the brink of becoming like Nazi Germany. Risible!

To return to the original discussion, the Huffington Post did not give enough background to this story and I feel in these cases rather than make snap judgements it is worth looking at more than one source: www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/irene-clennell-exile-singapore?utm_term=.mbOGj3NjK#.am1v8ao8Q
also: yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/deporting-irene-clennell-was-wrong-say-nearly-two-/
While I think that it is rather harsh, and sad for her and the family it does seem that she has perhaps not always followed the correct procedures required for her to remain.

www.open-britain.co.uk/r?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FOpenBritain%2Fphotos%2Fa.1016792188361105.1073741828.1014500498590274%2F1507479962625656%2F%3Ftype%3D3&e=9c72ff9a9aedb6ba3b18febaa14059ad&utm_source=in&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=obemail_30&n=2

To put on facebook if you agree that MPs should back the lords amendment.

Golly I'm flipping annoyed....Why is it reasonable or moral to use people as bargaining tools at all?! On both sides of the Channel, these 'bargaining tools' are people who for 40 years and in good faith, have moved between countries, often doing valuable study and work and marrying others of a different nationality. Now, because of a badly run, shot-through-with-lies Leave campaign, paid for by an American billionaire and others:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit

.... they have become bargaining tools! So many of the endlessly trotted out arguments about 'taking back control' and 'making our own laws' and 'controlling our borders' are utter nonsense, fallacious and a cover up for the Tory government's inefficiency or mean minded austerity.

I'm ashamed to be part of a country which is one of the worst places to be an asylum seeker apparently
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/01/britain-one-of-worst-places-western-europe-asylum-seekers

and how does that sit with being a magnet for hordes (10 million? Come off it), who want to come and live on benefits? Actually it's now being made almost impossible to get anything anymore be it disability or other benefits, citizenship or residence rights.

Lastly, if you want to be childish and start slinging insults about like Remoaner, well I just think Brexidiot. And as for 'pulling together' and 'being positive', I find it almost impossible to be positive day by day when I see headlines about the downside of leaving the EU, especially when serious politicans and former PMs are aghast. And really, what exactly does 'pull together' mean?? I think it means head in the sand of the little people, pretend nothing's happening and you know what happened in Germany in the 1930s when people took that stance.......

This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Brexit - nothing. This woman (for perfectly respectable reasons, it appears) invalidated her residential permit by extended visits to Singapore and a more permanent permit has not been achieved (we don't know why,but it seems likely it has to do with the previous invalidation). She was, however allowed a visitor's permit which ran out THREE YEARS AGO. She has been living here illegally ever since. So, instead of permits, why didn't she seek citizenship 27 years ago on her marriage or in any of the years since? Before travelling to Singapore for extended visits why didn't she ask how long she might be allowed to stay there under the terms of her residency permit? She must have realised a visitors permit would run out. Did she seek to renew it? If not, why not? As a result she has been living here illegally for the last three years, long before Brexit became a possibility, much less a reality. Realistically she has had plenty of time to explore all possibilities in order to remain here, and presumably would not have been trying to do this alone as she has a British born husband and British children to help her through the complexities of the system. But they apparently did nothing, they all kept their heads down under the radar for THREE years, and now she has been removed with all the upset and hurt that might have been easily avoided.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/28/gmc-poll-suggests-half-of-european-doctors-are-considering-quitting-uk

So you don't think there is a moral or ethical case for the UK agreeing that EU residents can stay?

Fortunately the Lords disagree with you.

Are you happy that 60% of European doctors working in the UK are thinking of leaving?
I noticed one Lord said that an exception should be made for those working in the NHS. I disagree. That means that every sector can be bargained over.

As I've pointed out many times before whenever durhamj brings that up, Firecracker....

How can it give them a better bargaining position if they say all EU nationals can remain here after Brexit, they would be giving away a bargaining tool not gaining one.

What I like about the Lord's debate is that they are saying that it is a moral and ethical duty to support the amendment.
Apparently all groups of UK citizens living in the EU have said that they support the amendment.

I understand your dilemma, Rinouchka. My Danish daughter in law did not want to take UK nationality because it would mean giving up her Danish nationality. It has now changed and she can have dual. Her husband is British, her son is Danish, although born in the UK, his siter was born five years after him, and the law had changed again, so she is British.
There are no certainties after Article 50. There will be no changes without parliamentary approval, just said by Lord Bridges, the Exiting the EU Minister, gives no certainty either.

Why can the government not agree to those who lived here before Brexit being allowed to remain?
Does it not give them a better bargaining position?

If EU states decide not to give residence to 900,000 UK citizens, what then?
Is the government then going to say that 3 million EU citizens have to go back where they came from?
Is that what anyone wants?

And to be fair, it may be a true-life picture of your situation Rinouchka, but of course it's not typical of all immigrants.

If you continue living here Rinouchka there shouldn't be a problem, should there? It does sound quite a complicated case.Why not ask your local MP for advice?

I have just returned to this thread and would like to respond to those who have kindly made suggestions in answer to my question of 27 Feb.

Jalima and dbDB77 suggest that I apply for GB citizenship ( and yes, I would need to pass the English Language and general knowledge test) but there is a problem there.
durhamjen, you are right, I would probably need to stay out of the UK for 2 years to endanger my permanent resident status but that is not guaranteed.

May I just share with you a situation which others like me find themselves in, something that those who have only ever lived in the country of their birth could never envisage and thus may find hard to understand.

I was naturalised a US citizen but I was born elsewhere. My parents had to emigrate in the late 50s and, as a pre-school child, I, of course went with them. At that time, the US did not allow immigrants to retain the nationality of their birth. So they had to renounce their birthright in order to become US citizens and thus, I, too, renounced my birthright.

Several years later, I won a scholarship to study in Europe, met, married a Brit and remained in the UK. My only nationality was my naturalised one. When I investigated obtaining UK citizenship, I was told by the US that I would lose my US citizenship if I obtained a second naturalisation certificate. The US will not allow a citizen a second, obtained nationality.

Having spent my childhood and adolescence in the US, this was my identity and I found it difficult to give that identity up. In the 1990's, I was informed that the US rules had changed and that I could re-obtain the nationality of my birth without losing my US citizenship. This, I duly tried to do in order to be protected in Europe( I was born in one of the original EU countries).

But the country of my birth did not want me back because I had renounced my birthright( even though this was a prerequisite of American law at the time, since changed). I have appealed and have been told that I can get my birthright back if I live in that country for one full year, something I planned to do.

With Brexit, reobtaining my original citizenship will be of no use.......and so we go round in circles.

This is not a rant, just a true-life picture of what it means to be an immigrant.

" He also says there is no need for the amendment, because there is no way that Britain would throw out EU nationals.

So the only purpose of this amendment is “virtue signalling”. "

From Lord Lawson's speech.
He obviously doesn't read the Guardian or the i. Doesn't keep up-to-date with the news.

Eu nationals are being and have been thrown out.

In my experience some of the people who voted to remain in the EU are the first to complain that they can't get a doctor's appointment quickly (too many people registered) their grandchildren can't get into the local school(too many children applying), they have to wait too long for an operation (too many people on the list),state pension age is being put back (the pot of money stays the same but the numbers of pensioners increase) , houses are being built on the green belt, too many cars on the road and so on. The population of this country is far too high as it is now. Imagine what it will be like in the future with another 10,20 million people or more here. Brexit is all about taking control of our own laws and that includes who has the right to live here and who doesn't.

Womble "cheap labour"??? Why did those rich people donate heavily to UKIP and the Leave campaign. Because they wanted to get rid of EU backed employment rights and further force down the quality of many "jobs" in the UK. And hence the cost of employing people. Brexit will open the door to shipping in really low cost labour from non EU countries.
There are a few categories of employment (e.g. in construction) that are having pay rates reduced by competition from EU tradesmen. But if those tradesmen all go home just wait for the cacophony when building developers in the SE are struggling to recruit.

Only if you are dd ( takes two to argue) haven't noticed anyone else 'spoiling for a fight, or on the wrong script' either.
I do see people , including myself, saying this issue is nothing to do with Brexit.I remember years ago that individual cases are sometimes taken up as a cause celebre
( often rightly, sometimes wrongly) and this has always gone on.Immigration goes after the easier targets, we can't always say they are wrong, but in the case of the lady who has been a carer, it would seem harsh to send her back.We don't always have the full facts/story in some cases.

I have the feeling that some people on this thread have picked up the wrong script and/or are spoiling for a fight. Bizarre!

Daphne that is why I said sometimes. There just seems to be not enough about what we all need now. We have had hundreds of thousands of immigrants come in since Blair and I think most have settled very well. But newspapers sensationalise the odd case and everyone is back on their high horse again. Blaming Brexit. I am not saying don't think about these things. I am from London. Born in London and in the minority. I now live in the SW and wish I was back in London. So no racist here.

Caring about friends and neighbours and being concerned about how immigration laws affect people are not mutually exclusive.

You don't know how much people commenting on here do in the 'here and now' or whether they're healthy enough to do so. I would imagine there are some people on Gransnet who are in poor health and/or have restricted mobility. They might not be able to do much, but it doesn't mean that their brains have gone to mush or they have to give up caring and commenting.

What gets me is all the people that feel sorry for the lady mentioned above. Perhaps it was the wrong thing to do. I don't know. And others immigrants are sometimes the same people who wouldn't help a neighbour or anyone. It's so easy to get on your high horse about these things and not think who needs you who is close and you could help. That includes the elderly, immigrants, the young. Charities. I find we all keep in our little boxes and moan about the big issues instead of dealing with the here and now. Just saying. Some of us can't even get on with our children. I have a son that thinks about all these strangers and verbally bangs on about it and we help him but he wouldn't helps us. What's going on in the country. The people that feel they can be racist have always been there. The ones that go further are nutters. The appalling murder of Jo Cox. You can't blame Brexit. As individuals we voted either way for our own reasons. We didn't know what others were voting or the result. Stop blaming Brexiters!

misundertood I have implied no such thing!

This isn't some jobsworth misinterpreting the rules. Theresa May changed the rules in 2013 when she was Home Secretary. If Irene Clennel was earning £18,500 a year she could stay - any spouse of a UK citizen can stay but only if they are earning not caring as this poor woman is. Also if you live more than two years away from the UK your right to residency is ended and as lots of families with a non UK spouse do they can be deported too. What is another scandal is that there is literally one law for the rich and another for the poor. Theresa May has literally put a price on human rights and the right to family life in the UK. Deeply unjust and deeply shameful. I don't care how long this woman or her family lived in Singaporor how much a year she earns - her Geordie husband, her children and her grandchildren are living in the UK and so should she be. Campaign to change this unjust law. Sign the petition to let her stay and contribute via crowd funding to her legal costs asap.