A liberal plea for fake liberalism to grow up

Trevor Phillips said much the same thing regarding liberals and the left in his programme 'Has politicle correctness gone too far'
He claims that the very people who advocate free speech are the ones who are shutting it down.

BTW, I'm not saying Trump doesn't sneer, only that millions of Americans don't seem to think he's as bad a sneerer as, say, Hillary Clinton and other supposed 'liberals' like her. Fake liberalism is a kind of snobbery, a looking down on people less well educated, less globalised, than oneself.

Fake liberal to me means a concentration on the wrong things. I think the article spells it out quite well.

I would call the writer of the article a Real American Liberal. He is recognising the mistakes liberals, including perhaps himself, are making and recognising in addition to that the reasons why Trump got elected. And I think he is pondering, like many another person I imagine, what Real Liberals need to do to get back the support of those they've lost.

The quote you give, ankers, is the essence of the problem. People who voted for Trump are looked down on and spoken of as he says (rednecks, stupid, trailer trash, etc) and, as Hillary Clinton said, "deplorable". Hardly a vote winning strategy. But more than that, it's actually very sad that politicians and media commentators sneer at people in this way, and no bloody wonder someone like Trump, whom they don't see as sneering at them, got voted in instead.

The same sneering attitude exists here in the UK: the "people don't know what's good for them" attitude, and "they should take heed of the experts". That last always makes me laugh because experts' opinions and pronouncements disagree just as much as anyone else's.

I still dont understand what the writer means by fake liberalism.

For the 2016 postmortem, liberals, because we tend to lean toward compassion, blamed the poor. We didn’t phrase it that way, of course. We blamed hillbillies, rednecks, trailer trash, as though this hasn’t always been prep-school code for poor people. How, we asked, could they vote for someone so opposed to their own interests?

was the bit I was talking about in particular.

Where are, as you call them the "Real American Liberals" in the link please? Or in real life?

As another aside, I thought the writer made a very very good point about weather realted deaths in rural areas, and weather related deaths in cities, and how much media coverage each gets/got.

American liberals are or have been also known as Progressives, except that recently, because of some of the attitudes the article talks about, some whom I'm going to call Real American Liberals (those who stand up for real liberal values, such as freedom of expression) are beginning to refer to "Progressives" as "Regressives" because they are not standing up for real liberal values.

I think these Real American Liberals have never been Republicans or conservatives (small c) but neither do they feel at ease with the current somewhat regressive tendencies of the liberal elite. I recognise the feeling because I think it is occurring here too, e.g. long-time Labour supporters are feeling that their party of preference has lost its way.

ankers, when I started the thread and wrote the title I was quoting what the article said because I had found it an interesting one and thought others might too. You, at least, seem to have found it quite thought-provoking, which was the whole idea. Thought-provoking is good and is my usual motive for posting on Gransnet.

I think the liberal scoffiness that the article refers to is a reference to the American liberal elite. I thought the article made that clear but perhaps not. At any rate, I agree with you that there will be many liberal folk outside of this city-dwelling liberal elite and that some of them will be comparatively poor. I also think that the article is implying, if not outright saying (I read it yesterday so can't remember exactly), that some, possibly many, of those who voted for Trump this time round would have voted for a Democrat in other circumstances. I've certainly picked up from other things I've read recently that some people who voted for Obama in the past voted for Trump this time for the sorts of reasons given in the article.

It is perhaps reasonable to argue that super-rich film stars and other high profile people are possibly doing more harm than good in making political pronouncements. On the other hand, it seems to me that even when "ordinary" people protest and demonstrate there are some who feel they have no right to do so.

I think there are also some very slanted statements in the article. There is a very big difference between the - admittedly stereotypical and disrespectful - naming of the Washington Redskins and the attitudes, motivation and actions of the Ku Klux Klan, which supports Trump. To equate the two is, I think, misleading and manipulative.

An "opinion piece" on BBC 2 this evening expressed the same feeling that too much fuss was being made about Trump. It is noticeable that most of the people who are very relaxed about Trump's statements on race are people who are not affected by them.

I agree that the above ground pool "joke" suggests a most unpleasant strain of snobbery and superiority. But to suggest that this is the attitude of most "liberals" is, I think, ridiculous. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of right wingers and Trump supporters who are pretty unsympathetic and scornful about the lives of less well off people. I don't think Trump himself has in the past shown much respect for his workers or been a great champion of their rights.

Oh yes, you're right.

I've just googled and found confirmation of that - in the Mail Online!

Really?

I suspect it is also true that British Liberals tend to be better educated than the supporters of other parties, but they are not necessarily better off.

Taken from wikipedia
A 2005 Pew Research Center study found that liberals were the most educated ideological demographic and were tied with the conservative sub-group the "enterprisers" for the most affluent group. Of those who identified as liberal, 49% were college graduates and 41% had household incomes exceeding $75,000, compared to 27% and 28% as the national average, respectively.

Admittedly it is from 2005.

But if you google "are american liberals wealthy", it seems to be a resounding yes.

I dont think american liberals have the same demographic at all as the uk liberals.

American Liberals come from a wide range of income brackets. They are not all as wealthy as Meryl Streep.

What they do have in common is a regard for truth, decency and care for the whole community, for the future of their country and a total opposition to the lies of Donald Trump.

thatbags. When you started the thread, what exactly do you mean by liberal plea, and fake liberalism?
I assume you are talking about liberalism in the US and not the UK?

I know many openly liberal democrat voters, and I am well aware that they indeed are ordinary hard up folk etc in this country.

But a liberal in the US is not the same as a liberal in this country I dont think. Both possibly in income[which is part of what the article seems to be saying also] but also in meaning?

ok, thank you for answering, but I suppose I was really talking about the liberals in america which is what the article is talking about, and which you also mentioned.

OK then Ankers I'll tell you. I am a member of the Liberal Democrats, and have been for many years, and I know that many of our members are ordinary hard up folk who work hard to make this country better.

Is that a diversion post, varian so that you dont answer the previous post?

I wouldnt dream of such a thing!

Do not assume that being poor equates with being stupid

Not just in this country, but also in the USA, lots of poor people are Liberals

Are they though? How do you know that?

^yet many American Liberals (eg most of the Democratic party) would be quite at home in the UK Tory Party.

Pretty sure I dont agree with that in the slightest!!!

Liberal is used as an insult by the American right yet many American Liberals (eg most of the Democratic party) would be quite at home in the UK Tory Party.

Bernie Sanders, I think , if he lived here would be a Liberal Democrat.

Gill57