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A liberal plea for fake liberalism to grow up

(58 Posts)
thatbags Thu 02-Mar-17 08:22:44

"Donald Trump isn’t something that happened to us; it’s something we created. The Americans who disagree with you aren’t your enemies but your co-authors". Very good article by Willie Davis. Quite a long read.

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 08:38:33

Maybe going off on a tangent, but is the article saying that liberals are not poor?

thatbags Thu 02-Mar-17 09:42:17

Not that I noticed, ankers.

thatbags Thu 02-Mar-17 09:43:47

If you find evidence that it is, let me know and I'll re-read.

grannypiper Thu 02-Mar-17 17:24:49

Good article, a few home truths in there

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 18:45:03

Because, according to him at least, liberals have been blaming the poor for the way in which they voted.
So by [his] definition, liberals themselves are not poor as they would hardly blame themselves.

varian Thu 02-Mar-17 19:22:13

Not just in this country, but also in the USA, lots of poor people are Liberals. Being poor does not disqualify you from wanting a society that is fair and open.

GillT57 Thu 02-Mar-17 19:37:31

I am mystified why many in USA use the term liberal as an insult? As far as I am aware, liberal means : respecting and allowing many different types of beliefs or behaviour. Can't see what is so offensive about that!

Iam64 Thu 02-Mar-17 19:39:56

Gill57 smile

varian Thu 02-Mar-17 19:44:26

Liberal is used as an insult by the American right yet many American Liberals (eg most of the Democratic party) would be quite at home in the UK Tory Party.

Bernie Sanders, I think , if he lived here would be a Liberal Democrat.

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 19:46:55

^yet many American Liberals (eg most of the Democratic party) would be quite at home in the UK Tory Party.

Pretty sure I dont agree with that in the slightest!!!

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 19:47:56

Not just in this country, but also in the USA, lots of poor people are Liberals

Are they though? How do you know that?

varian Thu 02-Mar-17 19:49:33

Do not assume that being poor equates with being stupid

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 19:55:48

I wouldnt dream of such a thing!

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 20:06:55

Is that a diversion post, varian so that you dont answer the previous post? hmm

varian Thu 02-Mar-17 20:13:42

OK then Ankers I'll tell you. I am a member of the Liberal Democrats, and have been for many years, and I know that many of our members are ordinary hard up folk who work hard to make this country better.

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 20:22:06

ok, thank you for answering, but I suppose I was really talking about the liberals in america which is what the article is talking about, and which you also mentioned.

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 20:24:51

I know many openly liberal democrat voters, and I am well aware that they indeed are ordinary hard up folk etc in this country.

But a liberal in the US is not the same as a liberal in this country I dont think. Both possibly in income[which is part of what the article seems to be saying also] but also in meaning?

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 20:28:20

thatbags. When you started the thread, what exactly do you mean by liberal plea, and fake liberalism?
I assume you are talking about liberalism in the US and not the UK?

varian Thu 02-Mar-17 20:33:52

American Liberals come from a wide range of income brackets. They are not all as wealthy as Meryl Streep.

What they do have in common is a regard for truth, decency and care for the whole community, for the future of their country and a total opposition to the lies of Donald Trump.

Ankers Thu 02-Mar-17 21:22:10

Taken from wikipedia
A 2005 Pew Research Center study found that liberals were the most educated ideological demographic and were tied with the conservative sub-group the "enterprisers" for the most affluent group. Of those who identified as liberal, 49% were college graduates and 41% had household incomes exceeding $75,000, compared to 27% and 28% as the national average, respectively.

Admittedly it is from 2005.

But if you google "are american liberals wealthy", it seems to be a resounding yes.

I dont think american liberals have the same demographic at all as the uk liberals.

varian Thu 02-Mar-17 21:49:22

I suspect it is also true that British Liberals tend to be better educated than the supporters of other parties, but they are not necessarily better off.

Ana Thu 02-Mar-17 22:00:03

Really? hmm

Ana Thu 02-Mar-17 22:17:09

Oh yes, you're right.

I've just googled and found confirmation of that - in the Mail Online! grin

Eloethan Fri 03-Mar-17 00:19:13

It is perhaps reasonable to argue that super-rich film stars and other high profile people are possibly doing more harm than good in making political pronouncements. On the other hand, it seems to me that even when "ordinary" people protest and demonstrate there are some who feel they have no right to do so.

I think there are also some very slanted statements in the article. There is a very big difference between the - admittedly stereotypical and disrespectful - naming of the Washington Redskins and the attitudes, motivation and actions of the Ku Klux Klan, which supports Trump. To equate the two is, I think, misleading and manipulative.

An "opinion piece" on BBC 2 this evening expressed the same feeling that too much fuss was being made about Trump. It is noticeable that most of the people who are very relaxed about Trump's statements on race are people who are not affected by them.

I agree that the above ground pool "joke" suggests a most unpleasant strain of snobbery and superiority. But to suggest that this is the attitude of most "liberals" is, I think, ridiculous. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of right wingers and Trump supporters who are pretty unsympathetic and scornful about the lives of less well off people. I don't think Trump himself has in the past shown much respect for his workers or been a great champion of their rights.