The 4th Industrial Revolution

Thanks for the link, Duhramjen; it looks very interesting.

www.systemslearning.org/

Makes me think of Schumacher's "Small is Beautiful", from the 1970's, a study of economics as if people mattered.
The revolution where robots take over mundane work and leave people to have a better quality of life instead of doing those jobs was predictable back then.
Unfortunately it requires a socialist will and a national plan to make use of.
We have known about the problems that the NHS will bring for decades, but nobody wanted to do anything about it, except to blame the elderly for getting older and needing more resources.

Wiki now has editors, who monitor the site more closely than in the past. It used to be possible to post any old rubbish, but no more. Wiki articles have to give sources. If there aren't any reliable sources, the editors delete or state that the information is unsourced.

Google isn't responsible for hate speech, because it's only a search engine, but it can and does filter certain sites and is responsible for the order in which searchers find the sites.

People who use Facebook and Twitter are responsible for what they write as individuals. Facebook has some strange algorithms for deleting certain posts. They can't monitor everything, which is why it's so important for the public to be educated to become critical readers.

Apparently, and I cant remember which companies exactly, our government would like to do more about hate speech or whatever on Facebook, Google or whatever. But because the companies are american owned, the UK government is limited in what it can do.

Isnt Wikipedia different however. Ordinary people can change things on there, and regularly do?

Well said, Maizie. I agree.

I think the implications will be more far-reaching than a blurring of physical,digital and spheres. There will be social and political implications too.

It's possible that there might be a rebirth of 'them' and 'us' politics, with unions and some kind of political party representing the workers. I think there needs to be, before those in control of the technology monopolise the agenda.

We're already beginning to see this happening with companies such as Cambridge Analytica's control of data and influence on the American elections and possibly the referendum. Companies such as Google, Facebook and Wikipedia wield enormous power by filtering the information we receive. Politicians these days can't hide misdemeanours or white lies, as they did in the past (ask Paul Nuttall!). Fake news can be around the world in seconds. Whenever a revolutionary group tries to stage a coup, one of the first things it does is take over state broadcasting channels. That won't be so easy with social media, so it's essential that those in control of social media are aware of their power and the public is aware how it can be manipulated.

I have no idea what the world will be like in 30 years,but I bet people will look back and think our age was a bit quaint. I think we are living through a revolution, but I don't know how it will end up.

There's a scary potential for a handful of people to be in control, while the rest of us scurry about like worker bees.

Quite so, dd.

For one thing, what will all we worker bees be scurrying about doing if automation has taken over?

I think that to work at all it would need an utterly radical rethink of how society 'works'.

Looking at the UK, and perhaps even more so, the US, our societies are founded on the 'Puritan Work Ethic'. An individual's success and moral worth is measured by their success at earning their money and paying their way without relying on support from the State or 'others'. What is more, the money they earn is theirs and not to be regarded in any way as a common 'good'. A little of it might grudgingly be parted with as 'tax' so that the State can implement some basic functions ( well, it is if the individual isn't clever enough or rich enough to find ways of evading this) but what's left is a private good. People who depend on help from the State are regarded as morally deficient in some way. They are to be despised, mocked and laughed at on Reality TV.


To achieve the Nirvana described in the article there would need to be a complete rethink on how people can provide the basics of life, food, shelter, clothing etc. if they don't have any means of earning the money to pay for them because there are very few 'jobs' left after automisation. And how do they obtain all those 'luxuries'?

I think it is interesting that this seems to be the description of the 4th IR: Fully Automated Luxury Communism. That brings on a whole new train of thought.

And is living a 'workless' life really particularly luxurious? I think you have to be quite self disciplined to stay meaningfully occupied without any particular incentive to do so. And don't cite all us retired people who fill our days with all sorts of great activities - we've been 'trained' to do this by working for most of our lives.

I think it's on its way, though, and we can't avoid it. But it won't be Nirvana...

But just think, MB! You might not have to multi-task in the future. A friend has one of those robotic floor cleaners and it's fascinating watching the thing move around. The cat even sits on it. She can operate it remotely, so her floors can be cleaned when she's out of the house. The only trouble is that she has to be very tidy,so it wouldn't suit me at all. :-(

Radio 4 Ankers (the good thing I find about radio is that it lends itself to multitasking)

I will find some time to watch it MawBroon. Perhaps just the second one.
But I am not going to say that I will necessarily change my mind!

Interesting POGS

I suppose I didnt realise a revolution goes on for so long.
Saying the current one started in 1970 does make some sort of sense.
It looks like being a long revolution though!
Ends in 2050 or thereabouts?

Sorry the link didn't work, but if you go into BBCRadio iPlayer it is easy to find. A series of programmes I believe.

You see, what you are calling sci fi film stuff, my son has been working with for the last 10 years.
My perspective is obviously different.

1st Industrial Revolution
1780 - 1840. Water , Steam , Power, Mechanized production.

2nd Industrial Revolution
1870 - 1914 Electric power. Mass production.

3rd Industrial Revolution
1945 - 1970. Electronics and information technology. Automated production.

4th Industrial Revolution
1970 - ... Fusion of technologies.

Blurred lines between the physical, digital and biological spheres.

One of my children is in high tech stuff. Another is in research.
So perhaps without realising it, it has all become part of my life somewhat, and so I dont feel the change in quite the same way.
I also have other relatives in IT so I feel it is all quite normal.

I have probably become a bit immune, and perhaps I shouldnt be.

The 4th Industrial Revolution by the way is a book title by Klaus Schwab, the founder of the World Economic Forum, DAVOS.

www.weforum.org/about/the-fourth-industrial-revolution-by-klaus-schwab

This link will hopefully be interesting too.

I've heard of WALL E, but never watched it.

I doubt if it did feel like a revolution. People would have realised relatively gradually that there was less demand for their goods. They would have realised that there was more work in factories, which would have meant moving to towns and cities. Some people did realise what was going on, which is why there were food riots throughout the 18th and 19th centuries and why groups such as Luddites rebelled. In 1830, there were riots known as "The Captain Swing Riots", but they died out and progress continued.

Eventually, food insecurity caused by factors such as bad harvests, resulted in the abolition of the Corn Laws, which abolished tariffs on cheap grain from America, which made bread cheaper but farmers couldn't charge such high prices. This had political repercussions, because farmers were no longer quite so wealthy and powerful as they had been.

Politics, economics and society are always linked.

daphnedil

Thank you I was being juvenile and you chose to take the higher ground.

I think 4IR is a prospect that indeed also fills me with fear for our children.

As a generation, like so many before , we have seen so many changes throughout our life time as indeed will happen to those who follow us will inevitably do so as well.

The rise of what has been dubbed 4IR is a double edged sword but there will be no stopping it. It affects every aspect of our lives from employment, how we communicate with each other, how governments interact , defence etc. etc. etc.

I posted this precis on another thread :-

"The Fourth Industrial Revolution, or 4IR, is the fourth major industrial era since the initial Industrial Revolution of the 18th century. The Fourth Industrial Revolution can be described as a range of new technologies that are fusing the physical, digital and biological worlds, and impacting all disciplines, economies and industries.[1]

Central to this revolution are emerging technology breakthroughs in fields such as artificial intelligence, robotics, the Internet of Things, autonomous vehicles, 3D printing and nanotechnology.[2]"

The world is changing at a pace/rate so fast we have probably just let it wash over our heads because it is so technically incomprehensible as to how our lives have been changed. We simply go with the flow and say 'Wow'.

Who would have thought we would ever see a 'face transplant' or the likes of 3D Technology that could build a house?

The question is how will civilisation cope with no jobs , industries becoming obsolete, the dangers of artificial intelligence , virtual reality etc..

It is nothing short of sci films turning into reality.

Have you ever watched the childrens film ' WALL E '?

My computer system is too old to get that link MawBroon.

I think I saw too much Tomorrows World as a child.

There were programmes that used to revisit it, and so little of it ever came to fruition that I became jaded by it.

It was the same with former industrial revolutions, but what makes it a revolution is the pace of change

The changes are already happening at a pace which many find hard to cope with.

It may be just me, but I like change. I realise a lot of people dont. I get bored if there is no change.

Also it may just be me, but it does not feel anything like a "revolution".
It could be though that living through something is quite different to looking at things with a historic eye, if you see what I mean.

I find myself wondering whether the industrial revolution felt like a revolution at the time? To the people that actually lived through it?

I knew I had heard something recently on Radio4 about robots as Carers. You might find this interesting if you have not heard it already.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015pw27/episodes/player

Driverless cars have already been tested on the streets of London:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39165920

What is happening now is more than automation. It's the combination of machines and remote technology which is different (the 'Internet of Things'). In theory, there is no requirement for the person controlling an action to be in the same place, which is why we have remote medical operations, drones dropping bombs, the ability to 'do' housework when at work or in the car on the way home.

It was the same with former industrial revolutions, but what makes it a revolution is the pace of change and the extent to which it will change people's lives.

The first industrial revolution had implications for family life, because it destroyed cottage industries. There was a pull factor towards towns and cities, which changed the countryside and villages. It also accelerated the growth of capitalism, because people no longer worked for themselves or owned the machinery to do their jobs. They became mere 'factors of production'.

The industrial revolution changed politics too, because people woke up the fact they were being exploited. They also became better educated, because they had more contact with others in cities rather than in isolated villages, so gained the confidence to voice their opinions.

None of this happened overnight, but there was a definite break with what had gone on before. I believe that the early twenty first century will be judged in a similar way by future historians. The changes are already happening at a pace which many find hard to cope with.