Retiring judge warns women who get drunk

Jayanna9040. My guess is no, but I am not an expert.

LSP - you've done a sterling job on here and well said Ankers on recognising that. I probably agree with everything LSP said ( no surprises there). What I would add is this. The judge was at the end of a long career. She will have over the years have seen the reporting of many cases, including rape, and will absolutely certainly have seen poor, inadequate and misleading reporting, it's no good saying read the whole of what she said because that's not what will be reported. She must have known that there would be certain aspects that would be taken out of context and I think it's a pity that a speech at the end of he long career will only contribute to more victim blaming and women who were drunk not coming forward. There are a huge range of issues she could have addressed about the reporting and prosecution ( or not) or rapes and rapist and she chose this? How about she addressed the issue of so many judges allowing the bringing up of the woman's previous sexual history when that is rarely supposed to happen.

Been reading but not commenting, trouble is I agree with LSP and the other posters too! But can I throw into the debate: is there such a thing as "I am available" signals? I'm not thinking of the short skirt but of (as I saw recently on the street) a girl pulling down her pants, exposing herself and shouting to a group of boys "Come and get it!". They didn't. But would that have been rape?

Is there a stat of how many people, whether male or female, who were raped as a direct result of being totally incapable of rational thought due to drunkenness? To be fair, it was the female drunk victims of rape the judge was referring to. To target the rapists they will already have raped someone. I do not see it would be targeting a victim who very possibly would not become a victim if they hadn't been wasted.

Why do you say
This is the sort of advice that parents should offer their children, particularly sons as they are most likely to be the victim of male violence.

and then say
i don't think telling women not to drink is in any way, shape or form going to help with the above stats,

I dont see how those two statements go together.

I just do not get this. I really, really cannot understand why some women take this stance over what is absolute commonsense - the judge is saying this because she has seen more than most the effects of losing control over your body and then being prey to the worst kind of exploitation.

The woman was stating the truth if you are under the influence of alcohol you are more likely to be run over, raped ,fall downstairs ,loose your phone and most other things that will cause distress everyone needs to be responsible for their own safety and getting drunk isn't responsible

It's really hard to talk about male violence without being called a man hater. We do need to talk about it though if we want to improve society. I don't think I am in cloud cuckoo land Alima, I just think that targeting rapists would be more effective than targeting victims.

Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men are raped in England and Wales alone every year; that's roughly 11 rapes (of adults alone) every hour. These figures include assaults by penetration and attempts.
Nearly half a million adults are sexually assaulted in England and Wales each year
1 in 5 women aged 16 - 59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16
Only around 15% of those who experience sexual violence choose to report to the police
Approximately 90% of those who are raped know the perpetrator prior to the offence.

i don't think telling women not to drink is in any way, shape or form going to help with the above stats, the only change we might see is less people reporting.

LSP, I have an idea! If they can put one man on the moon, they could surely put them all up there. That would solve the problem.
Only problem is we'd have no one left to cut the grass.
Small detail I know.

I think the judge was talking sense and it is a shame she has been pilloried for doing so. I also think LSP is living in cloud cuckoo land. Mankind may have done pretty well since walking on all fours but in some ways I don't think some humans have managed to evolve at all.

It's not just not getting drunk though, it's all the rules. Don't drink, be careful what you wear, don't flirt but don't be unfriendly either, don't walk home alone, don't walk home in the dark etc

Lots of rules. the only sure way not to get raped is if you are lucky not to meet a rapist.

Thanks Ankers, it's good to talk about this, I am listening to everyone even though I am coming at it from a different angle!

I too think that is the bottom line.

I think it will do both. The question is how much of each.

There probably is a difference between a judge saying it, and parents, to be fair.

It is always hard to quantify this sort of stuff.

I think there are two completely different discussions going on here. One is the discussion about rape, which doesn't actually seem to be a discussion because there is nobody who doesn't agree that rape is a horrible crime where the only guilty party is the rapist and that no way should the victim be made to feel guilty. I also think we all agree that education is the way forward and that young men should realise that they have to accept that sex is only permissable with the informed consent of the woman.

The other discussion is whether individuals should take responsibility for their own safety and well-being in a world which is not a perfect utopia and at times can be dangerous. Surely there should be some modicum of sense here? Isn't it part of growing up that you learn to evaluate situations and whether there is danger associated with them?

Bottom line, will this prevent rape, or will it stop victims coming forward. I think that it will do the latter.

Well done LSP by the way, for carrying on posting when most posters do not agree with you.

x post!

Not getting drunk is not a half life!

You think that what the judge said was right advice, but a judge shouldnt say it, just parents?

I don't think that not drinking themselves insensible is living a half life!

AS far as I am concerned the judge was speaking a truth, trying to get women (not only young women get drunk) to remember - they must all be AWARE surely, - that getting so drunk you are beyond self control is not healthy. It occurs to me that the desire for keeping up with the boys at drinking has done a great deal of harm to the younger generation.

I think it would be common sense to look at society, see who is committing these crimes and do something about it. That would be logical and change society for the better. I think asking women to live a half life where they have to police their behaviour is wrong.

I don't Ankers, I don't think that advice is in any way helpful and is actually harmful. This is the sort of advice that parents should offer their children, particularly sons as they are most likely to be the victim of male violence. I think that when a judge offers this advice after a rape trial then it's harmful.

If all women stayed at home, wore long skirts, didn't look men in the eye would rape be eradicated? I don't think that it would be.

A woman or a man who drinks themselves senseless cannot protect themselves or give reliable evidence in court. It's not about politics. It's about common sense and taking preventative measures to PROTECT women. The judge is right.

But women aren't purses that can be safely left at home, they are people. they shouldn't have to keep themselves locked up to be safe. I do understand what everyone is saying but I think that ultimately this advice doesn't help or prevent rape

They shouldnt have to, but they do. The world is not utopia[feel like putting in, heaven will be!].

Do you think that the judge's advice may prevent any rape happening at all?

But women aren't purses that can be safely left at home, they are people. they shouldn't have to keep themselves locked up to be safe. I do understand what everyone is saying but I think that ultimately this advice doesn't help or prevent rape. It just pushes the blame onto someone who is going about their life doing perfectly normal things. Women don't report rape, comments like this mean that less women will report.

I think we should be targeting the people who are raping, not the victims. It is so hard to talk about, if you mention that 98% of sexual assault is carried out by men then you are called a man hater, told that not all men are rapists. I know that not all men rape but sexual assault is a crime carried out, largely, by one sex. It is a crime where one sex is more often the victim. It is a crime that often goes unreported as women blame themselves.

Though this advice seems sensible, I think it will contribute to more women not reporting.

The judge has been backed by UK top politicians and lawyers. It's just been on the news. A barrister has just explained how juries view a rape victim's account of recall and memory if she was drunk at the time.