Guards on trains

Fitz54 when someone invents something that can deal with teenagers climbing around carriages, blasting music and using language that made me uncomfortable (and I am not referring to the odd bad word but to explicit references to sexual acts in graphic terms) I will be perfectly happy to have driver only trains. I have already said I was lucky I could easily move to another carriage, a longer journey between stations would have left me feeling very uncomfortable. Passenger comfort and safety should be a first consideration and not the last.

I'm with you Trisher, waiting on unmanned rural stations is scary enough (I hate being spat at by bored kids tho a fist thrust in your face can be alarming), stuck in a train with no guard is even worse.

Blueskies I should have also said that to the extent I am obsessed with the job market it's because we have a wall of technology about to hit it (as if we haven't had enough already) and people who think we can ignore it, or fight against it, are deluding themselves. It's absolutely for the sake of the very people you are concerned about that we all need to get very obsessive about the job market.

If you read my posts properly you would see just where I'm coming from. We don't need all those currently employed as guard to do their current job, or at least we won't when the new technology is fully up and running. But we absolutely do need all those people working for the railway companies helping customers in various different ways, depending on the circumstances. Everybody still in work, no drop in pay or prospects, more and better help for customers, and no reduction- hopefully and increase- in safety.

Long haul trains will still have guards but they'll be responsible for customer service. So, we are talking about a change in job title and responsibilities for more customer service not about making guards redundant.

What's not to like provided the train's engineer/driver has full visibility of the doors?

We do need to get real Fitzy54. Why are you so obsessed with the job market? What sort of society do you want? Maybe we should all study social anthropology at school and we would understand all could have a better life not just the greedy some. There is enough to go round in this world of ours. So lucky that we are not living in the Sudan--is that what you want? We can do better than that. We don't need to blame other working people when we are sitting comfortably. I wonder where you are coming from.

If I can get where I want in the UK by coach then even though it means longer travelling time I feel much safer than being a female alone on a train.

You are now getting close to the truth bkueskies. It's all about jobs not safety. But as I keep saying, the train companies are willing to compromise on jobs if the unions will be flexible about what the staff do. They need to get real - technology is changing the job market, and as has been proved time and time again, you can't stop progress.

Hear, hear blueskies !

Two "jumpers" in one day here a couple of weeks ago. If you had ever been on a train and felt the wheels pass over a body you would be very thankful for a guard. When we blame unions those of us who've worked our socks off all our working lives remember that unions paved the way for our civilised benefits such as paid holidays etc. Pity our children and grandchildren as we had the best of times. What is happening to our society and why are we letting it happen. It is not progress it is greed and corruption.

^ we all know that having guards on our system would mean higher fares.^

I don't see that that is true at all. It could equally (and probable be more likely to) mean that paying guards means there is less money for inflated higher managemment salaries and dividend to shareholders.

Travelled on a Southern Region train recently and the guard was a young, slight female. I cannot imagine how she would have coped with a crowd of unruly teenagers - and one man, however beefy, could find himself in trouble with half a dozen young men who have had too much to drink. If we have guards on trains then the fares will go up. Whatever logistics we apply about profits, our transport system being so expensive comparatively etc. etc., we all know that having guards on our system would mean higher fares.

Would you have an airplane without cabin crew ?

But Trisher, the staff are fighting to keep their jobs , neither side is without self interest

I don't use the Tube so I can't comment on that but I know that the guard/ conductor on my commuter trains is checking for safety at each station on 10 carriage overcrowded trains with people fighting to get on and off at stations. I also know that out of commuter hours at unstaffed stations the guards help with ramps and wheelchairs

I still think it is interesting that people prefer to believe the statistics and report produced by what would once have been known as a government quango rather than listen to the people who are working and have real life experience. Statistics will be completely changed in the event of a serious accident only then I suppose will people realise and say the government should have listened to the staff involved.

The tube stops about every 2 minutes, with help at each stop.
That is really a total different scenario to some other train journeys.

But I havent looked up which specific train journeys are being talked about.

I agree grumppa. One guard on a train would be pretty in effective at dealing with bad behaviour anyway. Of course we see all sorts of things on the tube .... drunks, swearing, racial abuse, collapses etc. ....... and we get by. Help is available at each stop and usually commuters are pretty pro active at jumping in to help. People who think the presence of a guard will keep everyone safe are deluded.

X post Ankers and grumppa.

Why is the closing of train doors by a guard such an issue when the tube manages fine without?

Doors are automatic on LU, LO. Dont know about Dockldands.
They are not automatic on some other types of train journies.

I dont know if there is a "mind the gap" problem on London Underground and Overground, I cant remember.
But there certainly is on some other routes.

There was a bad incident[person taken to hospital] who fell or partly fell through the gap, and train obviously delayed on a route I travel on. Guards were around.

London Underground, London Overground and Docklands Light Railway run without guards (DLR without drivers as well). Why can't the Merseyrail drivers operate the doors? "True bad behaviour" is probably as frequent in London as in Liverpool,but we get by.

I live in Merseyrail territory where we currently have 3 or 6 car trains depending on the time. We have guards at the moment who open and close doors as well keeping a look out for "bad" behavior. True bad behavior is not often an issue but when it is the guard is essential as the driver has to concentrate driving the train. For passenger safety reasons alone there must be a guard and a driver on most trains, how is a driver on his own expected to cope with emergencies when no back up is nearby.

Ankers, that is my point, and the one Rigby chooses to ignore. A simple one size fits all doesn't work, so the unions need to be flexible in working practices, and abandon 100% DOT for something that puts staff where they are most needed, and doing the jobs they are most needed for.

and at night