Open Britain - Hard Brexit

Well today's the day! So many diverse opinions. I usually like to read a cross section of the press open mind and all that. Guardian Telegraph yes the Mail and one other I choose at random. My point? Aside from the sensational headlines of most of the press there is in today's Telegraph Allison Pearson's open letter to Brussels. It's well worth a read.

I have never heard T May or Davis say that they wanted to use EU nationals as bargaining chips, indeed before Christmas T May tried to come to an agreement so as not to treat them as such, but the rules had to be adhered to according to the EU and not talked about until today.So, there was nothing immoral about it.
You may as well say that the EU wanted to treat them as bargaining chips as well.
Reciprocity was needed of course, to protect our own people abroad ( or do they not matter to some.)

They were blaming the British government because May and Davis said that the EU nationals would be used as bargaining chips. How much more clearly do you want as an indication of such an immoral stance? They have been forced to row back on that since.

Davis said this week concerning the money owned to the EU that he hadn't seen any reason as to why we should pay it, nor principles underlying it. What a huge fibber he is!!!!!! Who on earth does he think believes him?? What does he think of those who do??

The point is/was ww that most on here were blaming the British Government and not the EU about security on the nationals issue.
Since it will be the first thing on the agenda then we should expect a speedy outcome.

There won't be a GE any time soon, as that has been ruled out, but if there were to be one, then the Conservatives would no doubt be back in power, and perhaps with a larger vote.

A general election with a new parliment?

If you read the speech rose you will clearly be surprised to learn that the EU have said that the national issue will be the first thing to be addressed.

Let's not get into the silly way of blaming everything on the EU or the British government. Careful reading of the facts - which will be transparently shown by the EU not the British government, will inform us in our opinions. Not stuff we read in the press, particularly the right wing rabble.

Don't forget it was a Scottish chap that drew up the rules for Article 50. He also says that it is not irreversible by the way, which if you tread it you will come away with the same impression.

For some ,just those who agree with you Chewbacca

According to OPEN BRITAIN and the LIB. DEMS. even after article 50 has been triggered BREXIT can be stopped. Both are asking for money to fight their cause. The Gorton Bye-Election will be a reflection on Labour. The Brexiteers call us REMOANERS but what is wrong with voicing your opinion when your gut tells the current trend is wrong and undemocratic.

The vote on 23rd June 2016 was not overwhelming and much has happened since then. Lies on both sides have been exposed and many people have changed their views as will many more over the coming months when reality strikes home.

A second referendum would not help but a General Election before the point of no return with a new parliament able to SAY NO. Better still if the new parliament could be elected on a PR Basis.

That's what I thought too Chewbacca

Yes Mamie but the host countries are part of the EU, and France for example, would want it's own nationals to have their benefits and livliehoods and security given,so would have to reciprocate with any British nationals living in France.
This is one of those matters that could be sorted out quickly if there is the will of the countries within the EU.T May wants to sort it out quickly, but do they?I hope so.

There are times when it is wise and considerate to hold one's tongue
I thought this was a forum where everybody , no matter what there political persuasion, could post. Or is it just for those who agree with you?

I don't think the EU as such can definitively agree our security Roses. That will be up to our host nations. We have been here for eleven years and as far as we understand, have already acquired the gight to live here and receive health cover as Americans or Australians would. The long-term threat to us is the decline of the pound.
Our son is affected because he would find it hard to get a work permit in Spain as a non EU national. Again, nothing the EU can do about that.
Once the UK is a "third country" the nationals will be treated as such imo.

I see that some posters are happy to blame the government here but not the EU.
No people should be used as bargaining chips, but up to now it couldn't be even discussed ( since the rules have to be stuck to) but they can be discussed now so let us see what the EU says on the subject of British Nationals living and working abroad.

I work in the NHS. In my department there are members of staff from : Argentina, India, Nigeria, Poland, Spain, Ireland, Cyprus and Hungary. I'm pretty close friends with several of my colleagues, some closer than others obviously, but none of them have confided any great concern about their status in the UK once we have finally left the EU. They were initially concerned, immediately after the referendum, but all of the UK nationals did our absolute best to offer reassurance and support then, and since, but no one appears to be very anxious about it anymore and has just carried in with their life as normal. A couple of my colleagues are as vocal as some gransnetters and are most definitely not the type to keep any concerns about their futures to themselves!

There was some fool from the government being interviewed on Radio 4 this morning. He said that it is possible that EU citizens could still have free movement, still come to Britain but not have all the benefits that British people have. Unbelievable and unlikely. So employ Portugese nurses but do not allow them to use the NHS? Great plan. The truth is I don't think this will happen, but it is a fine illustration of idiotic statements and answer to questions that nobody can answer.

I think rar is probably quite sincere in her belief that things will be alright. Perhaps she doesn't realise that there are people and organisations who would welcome the opportunity to victimise EU nationals and who will take advantage of any opportunity to do this.

Hold ones tongue? Because some posters wanted to stay in the EU and we are leaving? This is an opinion forum where all can have their say not just the few, and there will be many posters who are happy today that article 50 has been invoked at last.In fact, from the point of view of any EU citizens working here, at last their future can be discussed by the EU and the British Government, and ditto for our citizens who are living abroad.

We all know that the rules (if you can be bothered to read it) of Article 50 stated that NOTHING could be discussed until the country wanting to leave invoked the clause.

To suggest that the EU was dragging its feet months ago is disingenuous at the very least and rather silly.

Still failing to convince you of the immorality of using people as bargaining chips, eh, roses?

I note that the 'chips' who are able to do it are voting with their feet by leaving the UK (and particularly the NHS where they are much needed) and not bothering to come here in the first place.

dd I was more concerned with reassuring an autistic grandson actually, but I think that anybody who has been here for 20 years and working and with a British partner will have no problems. If and when, they are deported then you will be able to say 'I told you so.' And I'm sure that will make you very happy.

There are times when it is wise and considerate to hold one's tongue. Today might be one of them.

It was the fault of the EU, in not agreeing the security of British people abroad when May wanted to sort it out months ago.The EU refused to agree anything before article 50.

I do wish you would stop stating that you know what will happen rosesarered or that you speak for others. AFAIK you are not endowed with superpowers to look into the future. The fact is that none of us knows for certain. We are not toddlers and are not convinced by your reassurances.

The most you can say is that it is unlikely that EU citizens who have been here for 20 years will be deported.

I agree with you trisher. I suppose I knew that some people have the values that they do, but the referendum has brought them out from under the bridges.

How can that be when today is the day that article 50 is invoked? Nobody can expect an agreement on it this very day!

Oh I forgot - everything is the EU's fault - silly me