Open Britain - Hard Brexit

No thanks.

Still worries me that they are forging ahead without telling us what they've really got in mind. Are we going to end up with pretty much the status quo, or is everything going to change?

The most likely scenario is that everything will change for the worse

No Thanks from me also
Had the referendum.
Change is inevitable.

Well, the doom and gloom merchanTs would say that...

it may well be that everything will change for the better!

I don't think they've really got anything in mind, Deedaa. All they seem to have done so far is explore up a number of blind alleys

It does seem very clear that it won't be a soft Brexit; the other two options can only mean bad or worse...

Deedaa I think it's pretty clear what they have in mind - full access to the single market, full control over immigration, no payments to the EU, no subservience to EU law or courts. The problem has never been what the Govt. wants but the fact that the EU won't give them that. The EU say sign up to freedom of goods, services, people and capital, contribute, and (probably) agree to a degree of primacy of EU law. The political argy bargy is really just about whether parliament can get a say in the negotiations, which pro-EU MPs will use to force the Govt. to agree to the EU requirements. This sort of positioning is hardly unusual before detailed negotiations, but in this case it looks very likely that both sides could dig their heels in, in which case there will be no deal and we are out - i.e. the second of your options applies - everything changes.

Please, please, Ana. do tell us how it's going to change for the better.

You're describing Soft Brexit, Fitzy which would be just about the same as being in the EU but without any input at all. If we get that, what on earth will we have gained? (the Norwegians have it and they're not very keen on it...)

'No deal' means we're up the proverbial creek with few trading partners in the world because most of our agreements are EU agreements which would fall as soon as we leave. What would we live on then?

Actually Mazie it's a hard Brexit I'm suggesting is more likely, but I agree with your views on both. I'm just saying that the EU are saying no deal or soft Brexit is all that's on offer, and TM is saying that unless we have immigration control, it will have to be hard Brexit/no deal. maybe it's all posturing but their positions seem pretty well set. I don't think that giving parliament a say would really have helped if the EU prove as intransigent as seems to be the case. All MPs would have been able to do is insist on a very soft Brexit which is could never be reconciled with the referendum result.

www.open-britain.co.uk/dominic_grieve_parliament_must_have_the_final_say

Grieve thinks parliament should have the final say on what happens. I am sure all those voting for Brexit didn't mean to give the PM all the power she has.

By the way, it's not just the EU being intransigent.

The whole thing is like jumping off a cliff in the dark, and I get angrier and angrier as we get nearer to this bloody disaster. Future generations are going to study this period in history and conclude that we have all lost our wits and ability to see lies and misinformation when it is staring us in the face; in this case on the side of a bus. It is pretty obvious to me that nobody knows what is going to happen, simply because it hasnt been done before. David Davis just simpers and assures the public that it will all be ok. Fool. EU is unlikely to agree to a soft Brexit, whatever that may mean, and we will, I think, just be left to blunder on towards the cliff edge. I do think though, that the EU has other important things to worry about, like the rise of the right wing in Holland and France, and the nasty ding dong developing between Turkey and Holland. It is when things such as this happen, when we are on the possible brink of populist right wing politicians taking centre stage, it is now that we need to be part of a united Europe, not an offshore tax haven with food banks.

I agree with everything you say there, GillT. It's quite frightening. What's even more frightening is the number of people who are saying just let the government/May get on with it, and let's see what happens. These are the people who wanted control.

Indeed dj. Contrary to those who told us to 'get over it, you lost' I am getting more and more angry as the date gets closer. And still nobody can tell us what is likely to happen ( nobody can possibly know what will happen as this is an unknown). If I hear one more politician say 'The Will of the British People' I think I shall scream. It is truly frightening. I spoke to a lovely woman, a published professor of history, a woman who escaped as a child from Soviet controlled Poland and is grateful to the West who gave her sanctuary as a child and an education. She was tearful as she talked about Brexit, Trump, Villders ( spelling?) and LePen, asking why can't people see what is happening, what they are voting for? This is a time when we need to be part of a big group like the EU, not time to cut loose. I also suspect that the car industry will leave, and there is a certain irony in that as it was when Sutherland voted out on Brexit night that we all knew it was over.

I'm right with you both, dj and GillT57 (and all GNet's passionate Remainers). What is more, even if we backed out at the very last minute and avoided economic disaster the country is now irrevocably different. We've discovered that we're nowhere near as nice as we pretended to be and that we have a whole mass of fellow citizens who have very unpleasant views and who really don't care about causing distress to their fellow humans. I suppose, in a way, we knew it all along really, but Brexit has legitimised their views and brought it all out in the open.

Even living through Maggie Thatcher's 'reign' wasn't as bad as this

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/13/dont-tell-the-eu-david-davis-is-having-his-chips-and-eating-them

Oh what rubbish Maizie

I do not think that European countries will cease to want to trade with us - VW is a prime example. Why would they want to cut off this lucrative market?

I do thinks theirs and other voices in Europe will be having their say. Whether they will be listened to is another matter.

You all know that I am one of many Passionate Remainers with a bigger wooden spoon than most though I really don't know how we can restore sanity to an increasingly wretched situation. Why should we just accept it and submit to a bullying bunch of Brexiteers who many of us regard as catalysts for barely hidden ugly prejudices. The tide to national oblivion does seem unstoppable despite siren voices from a great many formerly respected people. Too much damage has already been done to the economy and our currency which was too fragile to withstand such shocks.

When Theresa May became PM I briefly thought "It may not be so bad". Though a second Scottish Referendum would not be helpful for TM to accuse NS of "Playing Politics" with the future of the country is utter hypocracy. Have we not learned not to start something if we cannot see at least a chance of a better ending.

Messrs Clegg, Heseltine, Blaire, Major and others though they have made many mistakes now speak a lot of sense.

There is in my view a strong case for charging David Cameron with gross incompetence in calling the referendum and for charging Nigel Farage with something for wrecking the nation. This won't happen. As for Jeremy Corbyn why doesn't he actually lead the opposition or let some one else try.

Our democracy has collapsed due to polarization caused largely by an outmoded electoral system, years of poor government and failing education.

The more I look at what's happening, the more it's clear what a disaster this is going to be. Government is becoming more and more right wing and there appears to be no worthy opposition to stop it. As MaisieD says, we've discovered that as a country we are not as 'nice' as we thought we were. I feel dreadfully sorry for those living here who are not UK citizens and, I should imagine, feel so insecure. If this had happened to us when we lived and worked abroad, we would have been looking for the first opportunity to get out - and I would imagine that's what is happening now, especially those who have saleable skills and who are exactly the ones we cannot afford to lose.

As GillT57 says, I'm getting more and more angry and unforgiving to those who voted leave. Well, you created this mess, now sort it out. And if you say there isn't a mess, I suggest you take the blinkers off your eyes and actually look at what's going on: we're having to bribe car companies to stay here; other companies are looking to expand in mainland Europe and not here; the financial sector is deeply worried about how it's going to operate from London; prices are going up.... And we are stuck with second rate politicians like Liam Fox and David Davies, a lack of skilled negotiators, and a PM who is a control freak and thinks she'll get her way by bullying. No, I'm not going to 'suck it up' or accept the fact that 'the people have spoken'. A huge number of us didn't speak for Brexit, and we have every right to shout loudly that this is a huge, huge mistake and one that future generations are going to look back on and ask why we did it.

And a firm NO from me too. Stop scaremongering, roll your sleeves up and get on board. The ship is about to sail.

Well, we could just leave all the gloom and doomsayers standing on the quayside
nina as it may be a pleasanter journey without them.

All this 'Passionate Remainer' stuff means is that posters feel it gives them a right to be as unpleasant as possible to anybody who voted Leave! Can you imagine the fuss if Remain had won the day and posters on here, branding themselves as 'Passionate Leavers' had vented their spleen in the same way?Especially so far after the vote, last June for goodness sake.
Hopefully things will calm down soon as we will be triggering article 50 to leave.The hysteria on this forum at times is unbelievable.

So passionate. Brexiteers should pay for it, meanwhile public services go down the Swanee, food prices continue to rise, the £350m promised for the NHS per week is swallowed up by the billions this fiasco is causing. And it's all wonderful in lala land.