Open Britain - Hard Brexit

Well she seems to have been dragging her heels on that already roses

There will be a good reason for sending back anybody ( EU nationals or not.)

Mamie I understand that you don't want to hear gleeful comments ( don't know if there will be any or not, but doubt it) but for anybody who voted Leave, then yes, today is a historic day that a lot of people in the UK are very happy about.It will take a while yet for agreements to be sorted out, but at last it has started.It won't be T May who drags her heels on the subject of security for EU nationals here and abroad, but the EU itself, but hope this matter is sorted out as a priority.

I suppose all the EU nationals who have arrived recently thought before the referendum that they were coming to a country that would welcome them and their services. The vote brought out a side of the UK that is totally unacceptable and it is a fine line between sending home recent immigrants and long time immigrants. Can't see any reason why this line can't or won't be crossed at some time in the future. Saying "Nobody will be sent back" isn't reassuring it's simply ignoring the problem. When you ignore things they tend to get worse.

I have just watched another pro-brexit commentator who was hard to comprehend saying on tv that he was all for brexit because it would deal with the "immigrant problem"

He was living in Spain!

djen you often rudely state that I live in a bubble simply because you don't like my posts or my politics.The fact that I don't like yours but am able to be civil to you would make anybody else think twice.When I said nobody would be sent back, of course I meant people like your DILS who have been here for a long time now,and have jobs, British partners and children.When you brought this subject up last year on a thread, I and somebody else suggested that they get married which would have helped their case( if it needed helping) but apparently their principles of not liking or wanting to take marrige vows over rode their feelings of insecurity about staying here.Even without being married, your DILS are not remotely likely to be sent back to Denmark.

Feeling a mixture of fear and anger here too this morning. Was very heartened though by Anna Soubray giving Bernard Jenkin a right pasting on Newsnight last night. She says it as she sees it, and he didnt even seem to have the courage of his own Brexit convictions. Also a bit tricky here at work as one of my employees told me she voted Brexit because she thought she would give it a go, can't do any harm. I wonder how she would like to explain that to another employee who is from Eastern Europe, a hard working single parent raising two children who know only Britain as their home? These small dramas must be unfolding across the country. the Brexit voter has no animosity towards the Eastern European, not strong political views at all as far as I can tell which makes it even harder to comprehend.

Me too Badenkate. France is our permanent home and I look at our lovely home and the garden we have created together here and wonder how long we will be able to stay (far more likely to be the long-term state of the pound that causes problems than anything else). I am also very sad that my grandchildren in the UK will not have the right to live and work in the EU that we have enjoyed and that my grandchildren in Spain will not have the right to live and work in the UK, their father's country.
I hope people will not be along with their gleeful comments today. I don't think they realise how hurtful they are (at least I hope they don't).

Barnier hopes to have an agreement in principle by the end of the year regarding EU citizens living here. That's another 8 months of uncertainty for them, when May could say right now that they can stay. Still being used as bargaining chips.

And when she's bullying Scotland.

So yes, here we go folks and it is a very emotional day for me too Badenkate.

Mrs May has said,

“When I sit around the negotiating table in the months ahead, I will represent every person in the whole United Kingdom – young and old, rich and poor, city, town, country and all the villages and hamlets in between. And yes, those EU nationals who have made this country their home”

I think she means mostly the rich. She doesn't even represent the constituency that elected her to Parliament. 57% of them voted to Remain.

How can she claim to represent the EU nationals in this country when she's perched perilously on the fence and not offering them security?

It was signed last night.
Just been listening to a man on local radio who has sent his British passport to Theresa May as he no longer wants it.

The BBC has just announced that the UK's Article 50 declaration to resign from the EU will be signed on a green baize table. Why couldn't they use paper. it is far more portable.

Badenkate, I understand how you feel. I am writing this from France, where I live part of the year.

Just want to say I feel close to tears. I AM A EUROPEAN. My country is deeply divided and I find it very hard to forgive those who are responsible.

Off into the great unknown folks. Oh what a happy band we are.

Thanks for that information, Fitzy.

"About a third of applications for permanent residence are refused or declared invalid each year. The Migration Observatory says these rejection levels aren’t unusual in the UK visa system, but they are much higher than applications for indefinite leave to remain by citizens from outside the EU."

From Fullfact. More people from other EU countries have their applications turned down than from outside the EU.
A third of those who apply. That's actually a lot higher than I thought. They are then told to pack their bags, as it's Capita in charge of the system.

Nobody says those things to my grandson. He works it out for himself. We try to reassure him, obviously. However, the next time he sees anything in the news he asks again. It takes the patience of a saint to answer all his questions. But what if we are lying? Will he trust us again?

Like I said, roses, you live in your own little bubble.
Nobody will be sent back? They are all the time.

DJ that anyone is saying those things to your grandson that is quite dreadful but, for what it's worth, I for one am absolutely sure that all those EU nationals living in the UK before service of the A50 notice will be able to remain. The only reason that has not been made clear is that the EU refuse to reciprocate in advance of formal negotiations. I have to say that while I am very critical of the Govts. part in getting us to where we are I think the EU have been at least as bad and in some respects worse. I certainly put most of the blame on them for leaving the position of migrants in limbo.

A little bubble that contains an autistic DGS just like yours.The worst thing to do is not to reassure him, and to encourage him to believe that all will not be well.
T May was ready to assure EU citizens that they could stay here before Christmas but the EU countries refused to reciprocate on this matter until article 50 was invoked, well,mit will be invoked tomorrow, so it shouldn't be long to wait now.

DJ I talk to EU citizens in this country every day, French, Germans, Irish, Polish, Maltese..... Also non EU nationals working here - Indian, Chinese, US and others. My parents are Irish, one from each side of the border and the divide, a factory shop steward and a nurse in the NHS for nearly 50 years. I'm well aware of the issues but at the same time, while hugely disappointed over the referendum result, I don't accept that we are now a basket case without hope or that the EU are going to completely turn their back on us. MargaretX - I'm afraid you have little about the people that voted Brexit. Farage and a few others like him might have been at the forefront but working class people voted for Brexit in their droves, and huge numbers of "spoilt white collar workers" voted remain.

You have no idea, roses. You live in your own little bubble.

You should reassure him dj as this is what he needs,Nobody will be sent back , your DILS have been here a long time, and will only go to Denmark if they want to go to Denmark.Can you seriously think that they would not be allowed to stay here.
I cannot imagine, that anybody is telling them to leave!

Nobody can predict the future, Fitzy.
Just for information, can you tell me how often you talk to EU citizens in this country?
Both my daughters in law are EU citizens who have worked here for over 20 years.
How would you answer your grandson who wants to know why people want his mum to go back to Denmark, and will he and his sister and dad be allowed to go to Denmark with her? And if they do, what will happen to me?
This happens at least once a week. He's 15. Should I stop him reading, watching or listening to the news?
He might or might not have a vote at the next election.

The problem MargareteX is that nobody worked it out, nobody considered the reality, and surely even the most fevered Brexit supporters must be wondering how it is all going to work? Bloody David Cameron would not permit the Civil Service to make preparations for or even consider the difficulties and problems that a Brexit vote would cause, and he has just swanned off, into the sunset, making a fortune no doubt giving talks at dinners. People like David Cameron, Boris Johnson are not affected by Brexit, the bulk of the voters will be though, and I foresee a very difficult period ahead. Those who say we are negative; no, not negative, just realistic.

Interesting article Welshwife. I know Polly Toynbee isnt everyone's cup of tea, but this is worth a read.

The Uk does present a differnt aspect being an island. To us in the EU and on the continent free access is part of our life. Germany has 9 borders and we cross and recross them and no one wants to go back to waving documents through car windows. We also know that borders can only be really controlled by dogs and armed guards.

There will be no going back, too many people live and work crossing borders into Italy and Denmark and France.etc.
If British lorrydrivers are to carry on working efficiently the UK will have to accept free movement. You can't expect to have free movement of goods with no free movement of lorry drivers, engineers or technicians.
There you have it. The clever dicks that thought Brexit out are not drivers or engineers or technicians but spoilt white collar workers who would not recognise a normal day of real work if they saw it.