Open Britain - Hard Brexit

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurses-quit-record-numbers

I cannot fathom the hard hard line being taken by the Govt

The, admittedly pro-remain, commentaries I've read suspect that May is in hock to the hardline brexitters, notably the press, and fears going for anything but a 'hard' Brexit. Whether this is to keep the Tory party together against the threat (which seems to be diminishing) of losing voters to UKIP or a genuine fear of popular uprising is a moot point. Would a popular uprising really happen if we were to go for 'soft' or 'no' Brexit (i.e.stay in the EU). How willing would people really be to cause serious unrest and are there actually enough hardliners to cause trouble given that the Leave vote only represented 37% of the electorate?

Of course, having no meaningful opposition and being way ahead in the polls must give her the confidence to press on, but I wonder how she manages to sleep at night given the serious prospect of the break-up of the UK and the economic difficulties the UK (England/Wales?) would face if either of her options go ahead.

Thanks Ww I remember that as well. Just seems so worrying that things are happening already and the government are just keeping quiet-ostriches with their heads in the sand!

That was what Boris et al were telling us * trisher* - just like all the other things - personally I remember the problems there were about needing the passporting etc. I cannot fathom the hard hard line being taken by the Govt and also it would appear they are trying to alienate the EU countries before negotiations begin - but that is likely to be so they can blame the EU when things do not go the way they want.

If you haven't seen David Davis at the Brexit Select Committee, it's worth watching:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtNtvkkE4cw

www.youtube.com/watch?v=27U3bf4kkuA

In other words, he knows nothing and doesn't have a plan.

It really annoys me that Davis has been a Europhobic for decades, so he's had plenty of time to formulate his thinking. What did he think would happen?

Thanks for posting that link, Mamie.

I have posted links to that site before and have pointed out that it is a Leaver's site (in fact, North has been campaigning to come out of the EU ever since we joined the EEC!). I had hoped that some of the Leavers might take note of it...

What this guy is saying about 'hard brexit' is just the same as is being said by those Remain experts whose warnings are dismissed as 'speculation'. We are being pushed into a disaster that no Remain voters wanted and neither did a very significant number of Leave voters.

Welshwife how is it "only scaremongering" when EU banks are already restricting their employees movements and the regulations on bankers passports aren't even in place yet. London may be the clearing house for the EU now, but as you say several cities are ready to take over and that will be a financial disaster for us.

Like Welshwife I have scanned the website suggested by Mamie. The contributions make interesting reading and need close scrutiny to understand. The initial impression is that before finalizing Brexit there needs to be an open minded period of reflection.

"The Will of the People" is far too fickle to be allowed dictate the future for generations to come. We have seen it change and proven wrong in hindsight many times in the past.

The main problem with the UK is short term thinking always trying to win the next election, destructively swinging from left to right and back. Companies putting todays profits too far ahead of long term viability. PR would probably give a sequence of more stable coalitions, much healthier for the long term. Business planning for the long term simply makes sense; especially training, retraining and investment.

The City and banking sector have been saying this since before the referendum - but it was only scaremongering!!!! At the moment London is the clearing house for the Euro as well as Sterling etc. There was a battle with the EU to have this as they were miffed that we were not using the Euro but eventually agreed. Several cities in Europe are all gearing up hoping to be able to take over this role.

I heard recently of someone from an EU company not coming to work here because of difficulty with her "Banker's Passport". I had no idea what this was so I googled it. It made me even more depressed and I wonder now what other rules and regulations there are which will mean we will be in deeper shit than we thought possible. If you are interested
www.bba.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/webversion-BQB-3-1.pdf
Basically it will be Bye-Bye financial services industry.

I have read all sorts about these various things you mention Mamie - absolute minefield ahead - if I was Theresa May I would go back to bed and pull the duvet up over my head!

We were warned, but who needs experts?

I agree with you, Mamie. The 'to do' list is mind-boggling. It really would be good to hear something other that "We won. You lost. Suck it up!"

Ireland has said that it will block a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Can I recommend this series of blogs written by Leavers?
www.eureferendum.com/default.aspx
It is really does give an insight in to the complexity of the task ahead.
Rather than read endless comments about who won and who lost and "making the best of it", it would be good to know how, so close to the triggering of Article 50, the leavers on Gransnet are viewing things like:
EEA, EFTA or WTO?
The Customs Union - in or out?
The potential impact on Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibralter.
The potential impact on science, technology and medical research.
The potential impact on farming.
There are plenty of other issues, but these are the ones that stand out for me at the moment. What do others think?

Maybe £83 isn't a lot to you, but it would be to me. We live in a different world, Anya. Fortunately, I have absolutely no desire to live there.

Anyway, back to Brexit...

It appears that the Foreign Office and Trade Department have been told that they need to cut 6% at a time when they say they need 100s of extra staff to work on Brexit. Boris Johnson and Liam Fox are furious.

Hammond is being targeted as the fall guy, which is what was predicted a few weeks ago. They don't like him, because he's not a hard Brexiteer.

Ahem! How about borrowing some of that £350,000 on account? I thought Brexit was supposed to save the country money.

I don't think there were any draconian cuts to pensions DD from what I'm reading it was mainly a £83 (?) additional benefit and removal of free TV licences for well off over 75s.

Yes, like everywhere they felt the financial crash because it's an island which relies on its financial industry (as well as tourism) for much of its income. The whole set up on the island politically, socially, agriculturally, environmentally, etc is absolutely fascinating. They are very hot on crime too.

I read somewhere it's still worried about a deficit. I don't think the pensioner benefits have returned, so if you're a poor pensioner, I don't think you're welcome.

The situation re membership of the EU is actually very complicated. Just been trying to read up on it. This jumped out at me

"Under Protocol 3, Jersey is part of the European Union Customs Union of the European Community. The common customs tariff, levies and other agricultural import measures apply to trade between the island and non-Member States. There is free movement of goods and trade between the island and Member States. EU rules on freedom of movement for workers do not apply in Jersey."

That was in 2015 surely?

Jersey currently has a budget deficit. To balance the books, it's decided to cut pensioner benefits.

Just thinking on ....perhaps Scotland should apply to be a Crown Dependancy?

There are strict residency rules but there are ways for 'ordinary' people to buy. You just have to be patient and know the rules. And in fact the monies from their tax system are well used to the advantages of the local people.

And my point remains valid that Jersey is doing very nicely.

Yes I have - it's lovely
I didn't say you had to be a millionaire to live there - people are born there who can live there but they don't allow just anyone from outside to buy there.

Lots of council houses on Jersey. Have you actually visited it suzied?

Jersey is an offshore tax haven and you have to be a millionaire buy a house there. I guess that's the model we should aim for then ...

Jersey and other Crown Dependancies are virtually self governing and have their own parliaments. They do very well.