Open Britain - Hard Brexit

I don't think the Brexiteers particularly wanted to get rid of Europeans. What we did want was control over immigration. Under EU rules our government have been unable to deport the many undesirables/terrorists and anti British asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. The remainers are more concerned with money, it would seem to me. The open door policy that Angela Merkel created has caused most of the discontent felt both here and in other EU countries who are also likely to quit.

Maizied Of course jumping off a cliff isn't a challenge. It is a false metaphor. We are leaving a protectionist trading bloc and political union. Using clichéd and wrongly applied analogies infantilises debate.
Why the personal abuse? I was simply correcting people who said that Leave voters are getting no insults (as you seem keen to disprove with your own words) with an example that people could refer to if they really wanted the truth. There has been unpleasantness from both sides but it seems more universal from Remain. There is no Brown Owl bossiness. Just an opinion you disagree with. It is allowed.

Cindersdad Absolutely no support from me with your biased rhetoric. Accept it, the people voted and asked to leave, whether or not you or anyone else agrees, that's the way it is and leave we shall. As to the Leave campaigners 'promising' £350 million to the NHS per week, I can honestly say I personally never heard a promise, only that there would be an extra £350 million available which could go to the NHS, for an MP you seem so blinkered no wonder this country is in trouble with people like you at the helm!

Sorry for the rant everybody but I just feel strongly that both sides have continually made misleading statements both during and after the campaign, and Britain made up it's mind to leave. Our only hope is that the powers that be will negotiate and obtain the best deal for us on leaving, there are bound to be some parts we personally disagree with but you can't please everybody. I just think it's time to get on with it, the longer the dealy the more difficult it could become.

Well good luck with that!

I live in Spain, just living my life in a different country. You have said what I feel, no one here has asked when we will go back. I couldn't live in UK now, I was there last summer and last Christmas for my mums 100th birthday, it felt so awful and so different.

I am so very sad for what is happening, the referendum was based on lies and has spiralled into something even worse than I would have ever imagined.

So, Badenkate, you'll take the easy option to stand and criticise while others get on with it? My children are secure too, but that's in spite of the EU. Anyway, I'm bored now and it's lunchtime. English cheddar on English bread spread with English butter and tea from our Commonwealth friends!

Hollycat Hadrian's Wall is in England. On the East coast it is 68 miles from Scotland. I am not sure the North would be happy to be donated to Scotland.
I can't see a new referendum being popular (and would hopefully lead to Labour being able to pick up a few seats in Scotland, despite Dughal and Murphy). Sturgeon seems to be playing at politics.

And vote who in?

Exactly!

"how can we look at limiting EU immigration..."
Mazie you are just reinforcing the "dig your heels in" attitude of the two negotiating positions. You may be quite right in your view that their should be no limits on immigration but unless a compromise is found, which will have to include a compromise on immigration, we are heading for a rock hard Brexit.

Hooty No one is saying that things aren't going to be difficult. We still have the Tories after all. We can make the difficulties worthwhile if we vote the Tories out and make a concerted effort to trade more fairly with the rest of the world.

MinniesMum True and Spain's leader has openly said that if the EU does not do a fair deal with the UK then it wants the right to be able to do so itself. Spanish farmers will go bankrupt if trade with the UK is made too difficult.
There is a lot of emphasis on the size of the total EU market compared to our market - but life isn't like that. Each country and each industry or business and each region in those countries has their own concerns. Politicians love sabre rattling and squaring up to each other in negotiations. Business leaders, not so much.

Well, you're absolutely right Petra and Hollycat, because you've got an awful lot of work to do with your sleeves rolled up, on your boat, pulling together. While I'm intending to do absolutely nothing but watch from the sidelines, feeling thankful that both my sons are in jobs which are pretty well safe from any repercussions. It's nothing to do with me. I feel no responsibility at all.

I did feel there was rather a look of panic in Liam Fox's eyes on Sunday - which was quite enjoyable ?.

I know, Petra, I know.

Sorry, error in my first line!

LEAVERS it should read for goodness sake! I'm off for a lie down!

Hollycat You speak for many of us on the Brexit threads but many of just can't be arsed to repeat ourselves over and over.

All is well and lovely in the rose tinted world of the remainers.

And if Theresa May is (was?) truly a remainer and not a tight lipped leaver who kept her head down and her big mouth firmly shut prior to the vote with her eye on keeping in with big Dave (if he won) or taking over, like she has done, then I'm a monkey's uncle.

Oh MaizieD, I despair. So OK then. It's been decided. We're going whether you like it or not. GOING, Maisie, GOING!! What are you proposing to do to change it? Or are you just reduced to chuntering on the sidelines with all the other bitter disappointed people. The sun's shining! Or it certainly is where I live.

Looking into the abyss is what I call it. Despite a slight concern about how us expats in France are going to end up I am so thankful that I do live here. I would hate to come back and live in a UK that is not part of Europe. No French person has asked me when we are going back, they have massive sympathy for us, unlike what I am hearing about comments/treatment to expats in UK which has has anyway lost it's moral compass.

Agree with all the, remain, non self delusional posters, why on earth do the brexit voters think it's going to be better? None of you have actually explained how and given examples. It is not always the minority that are wrong.

It is not the will of the people, it was a 48/52 split. And now nearly half of those who voted are being ignored. Who says they are not right?

If I hear the words sovereignty and democracy again I shall explode. They have both become weasel words and without any veracity. Rant definitely not over.

We are all entitled to our opinions nannymargaret48 and few of us profess to be political experts. We are entitled to be angry/concerned/terrified of the uncertain future though. And the future is uncertain, both sides of this Brexit nightmare must acknowledge that fact. I do remember the 1970s, a time when Britain was the sick man of Europe, and I hope that nobody is advocating that particular pre-Eu decade as being the model that we should now be aiming for. I also note that the noisiest pro-Brexit MPs and rabble rousers ( Farage is not an MP) are being a bit quiet at the moment, maybe they realise that slogans about 'taking back control' and 'make Britain great again' are wearing thin as the reality of the uncertain future starts to dawn.

That is a spoof post, isn't it Hollycat?

I didn't realise there were so many political experts on this forum. They should all be MP's

So the only people entitled to take an interest in and be informed about politics are MPs? What a strange notion.

( BTW MP's whats?)

OMG! What a lot of disappointed, irritated remoaners! Brexit will be GREAT! Or it would be if people accepted the vote and got on with it as you would have expected Leavers to have done should you have won. We CAN do this. It's a brave new world out there, ours for the taking. Why on earth would you want to remain shackled to this out of date, corrupt organisation when there is so much on offer?The fact they haven't even had the auditors in for 20 years and good old Tony Blair is standing up for them should give you a hint. Anyway, the votes from the Lords and the Commons are in now. We're going. Theresa has a mandate. NO amendments. Her hands won't be tied. Gina Miller can go back into obscurity. The Scots will flounder if they do leave - we know it, deep down so do they. Their trade with us is vast compared with trade with the EU, oil (when DID it become Scotland's oil and not the UK's?) is running low, the Barnet formula will be no more and we will, theoretically at least, rebuild Hadrians Wall. This is GREAT NEWS people - get with the programme.

No thanks