Open Britain - Hard Brexit

They need to take a long hard look at the apprenticeship scheme roses In my opinion the one we have at the moment, is not fit for purpose.

Then we might be able to "home grow" our future skilled workforce.

www.theweek.co.uk/brexit/81116/brexit-fed-up-bankers-ask-to-leave-london

Perhaps leaving the EU will start to end the rot of not enough skilled workers, and doing more ourselves ( yes, it will take time, but has to be started somewhere!) Being in the EU seems to have started the slippery slope of sitting back and letting other people run things for us/do things/make things.Perhaps we will, at long last start training British people for these jobs.

Well I certainly will Cunco ??? And a very Happy Birthday to you as well.?

Well, where do I start? Maisie, if you read the article I posted you will at least be aware that Euro-scepticism has been significant for many years. I have read that it began in 1960 with a speech by Labour leader Hugh Gaitskill after the Treaty of Rome was signed. The EU wasn't top of many people's list of issues but when asked, often a substantial number answered 'Leave'. When people were actually consulted in the Referendum, they responded to the question. It seems that Government, Parliament and many Remain supporters were (are) ignorant of this background which left an ill-prepared shambles after the result was known.

As for discussing the concerns about the EU, my own experience on Gransnet has been that when I have raised issues about the future of the EU, they have largely been ignored in favour of jibes, sarcasm and resurrection of the dreadful stereotype of the Leave voter. Not only does this mean that contributors do not hear the Leave concerns, it means that we do not discuss what Remain voters here actually think about the future of the EU and the Eurozone. I suspect their views may differ markedly but we may never know. Yah-boo seldom gives rise to sensible debate and respect for differing views.

I will leave it for now now and see if I feel differently after a week of R&R, a significant birthday and a City of Norwich Half Marathon. I accept, Daphne, that you do not despise me so maybe you could wish me 'Good Luck'.

I called my best friend a liar yesterday. I'm not proud of myself, but it had to be said and we both voted Remain. What I actually said was that if, as she claimed,she knew all the stuff that we are hearing about now on a daily basis, and the reaction in Brussels after receiving Article 50 from the UK when she voted, she knew more than TM and DD then.

Since the Referendum there has been a further divide between those who believe what's done is done so shut up and get behind it and those like me, who can see there was a massive amount of misinformation and lack of clarity about what exactly Brexit means. I cannot see the wisdom of just sitting and waiting for the worst to happen without continuing to resist doing a grave disservice to the people of this country, especially the poor and the young who are going to bear the brunt of this madness.

When a marriage ends and there are children involved we always say the interests of the children are a priority; they are entirely innocent in the breakdown of a marriage. We should be taking care of our youth, as they are the citizens of whatever shape the UK takes in the end.

Someone posted this in the comments section of one of Richard Murphy's blog posts yesterday:

According to Boris Johnson, (Daily Telegraph, May 12, 2013) “If we left the EU we would end this sterile debate and we would have to recognise that most of our problems are not caused by Brussels, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills and a culture of easy gratification and under-investment in both human and physical capacity and infrastructure.”

It chimes precisely with what I said in my last post. However, the question to be asked about Boris is "Can he lie straight in bed?" Is this just another of BoJo's manipulation of words to suit his audience or did he really believe it? Because he aint saying things like that in public now...

Not a lot it seems!

Hinckley Point seems to be a prime example of how unfit we are to stand on our own two feet. We have to get the French to build the thing and it appears we don't even have the right skills in the UK to phsically build it..

Antony Froggatt, senior research fellow at Chatham House, said EDF was already concerned that Brexit will make it harder to import skilled EU nationals to build Hinkley, which is slated to provide 7% of UK electricity.

When I consider how much in our country isn't actually owned by us and how many skilled workers we have to import because we don't seem able to grow our own it really does make me wonder what all this optimism about our glorious EU free future is based on.

You consistently lump us all together and use outrageous language like 'visceral hatred'

Oh, FGS, Cunco. It was sarcasm.

I know that people voted Leave for different reasons. I have a friend who did it for a laugh. There was the farmer who voted Leave because Defra was late with his farm subsidy payment.

I do understand that some people had major concerns about the EU but that's as far as I can go; acknowledging the fact.From what I've seen and heard of reasons to vote Leave 'major concerns' didn't really come very high on the list. 16 million of us clearly didn't have any major concerns. As far as 'major concerns' V 'no major concerns' go the 16 million are probably in the majority.

I don't despise you Cunco. I just think you're totally wrong!

As Leavers are generally reluctant to give any rational reason for wanting to leave the EU or to suggest any better alternative, it's actually quite difficult to discuss anything with them or to know how to approach their concerns.

Yes, I saw that link on Mumsnet, thanks, Cunco.

You might notice that although the results are from the same polling organisation they were actually asking two different questions. The Conversation article is about a Remain/Leave question, whereas in the graph I put up the question seems to have been 'Is the EU one of the most important issues facing the country?' It clearly wasn't.

I've no idea if the Conversation results came from the same poll or from a different one. I copied the graph from twitter. It seems to have originated with The Economist.

Well said Cunco

MaizieD; I am not sure why you say that the EU wasn't a concern before the Referendum. For 40 years, when asked, people have often expressed concern.

theconversation.com/polling-history-40-years-of-british-views-on-in-or-out-of-europe-61250

Leavers, like Remainers, voted the way they did for many reasons. You consistently lump us all together and use outrageous language like 'visceral hatred'. Maybe if you tried to understand why some of us have major concerns about the EU and our future in the EU but outside the Eurozone, you stop depising us all so much.

It's also very patronising.

I see Jamie Dimon, head of J.P.Morgan Chase & Co. recently said:

'We hope that the advent of Brexit would lead the EU to focus on fixing its issues – immigration, bureaucracy, the ongoing loss of sovereign rights and labor inflexibility – and thereby pulling the EU and the monetary union closer together.'

That would be good although, on past performance, unlikely. One problem with this view is that fixing the 3-legged table that is the Eurozone will require either further integration or disintegration. It is unstable as it is.

Even I didn't expect this.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/05/uk-energy-projects-hinkley-point-threatened-brexit-experts-warn

But I suppose when you think about how long it takes to sort out nuclear power stations, it's not all that surprising.

It has been said before, but many people blamed the EU for thngs which were going wrong in their lives, for inequalities in their employment, or their housing, or for zero hour contracts or whatever, all of which are the responsibility of the UK government, an elected body. So much for unelected people making a mess of our lives eh? Also, an interesting statistic for anyone still bleating on about the number of 'unelected' people working for the EU; it is the same amount a work for Birmingham County Council and they weren't elected either. And while we are on the subject, a survey (yes, I know) reported that the migrants that most Brexit voters were concerned about were Somalis and Iraqis and other Asian nationalities; the last time I looked none of these were EU citizens with free movement, not that we were part of Schengen anyway!

"A cat fight in the Conservative Party that got out of hand"

But, the Leavers weren't swayed by the false promises...they say.

They were governed by the deep and visceral hatred of the EU that has blighted so many lives over the past 40 years.

So much so that the EU barely appeared to be concerning anyone for the decade before the referendum:

The whole blinking thing is unravelling. The net migration figure is and always has been a lie statement of intent, loosely put out there to appeal to the more right wing of the Tory party and the loony UKIP supporters. The figures were always a bag of lies and statistics ( same thing) because it included overseas students who come to the UK, pay a huge amount for their studies and pay rent, buy food, etc., then generally go home. To include these net contributors is madness. We do need to remember though, most importantly, that David Cameron, chief architect of this complete bloody mess, did not think the Tories would win the last election and so made all sorts of promises about net migration/EU referendum/tax cuts without thinking that he would have to see them through. That selfish, stupid, egotist of a man makes my blood boil.

Personally I think if we re-ran the vote and the youngsters who didn't vote did then the vote would go the other way. In other words there is almost certainly a majority for remaining even as we are today.

Did you see the Lib Dem woman MEP stand up in the EU Parliament and say how everyone was told lies by the Brexiteers and also that over 16 million of us still voted to Remain and still wanted to Remain.

Its ridiculous isn't it?

all the false promises are beginning to unravel even before the negotiations have started.

Just a temporary blip, ww. It'll be fine. Have confidence...