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Could this really be the end of the United Kingdom?

(50 Posts)
GracesGranMK2 Fri 17-Mar-17 21:21:20

With Nicola Sturgeon probably being put in the position where the only referendum she can run would be an advisory referendum as the English Parliament will not allow the Scottish Government to call one on the basis of the last one, Northern Ireland in turmoil and Wales not thinking of the balance sheet when it came to the EU referendum could this be the end of the United Kingdom - the end of Empirical Britain?

Ana Fri 17-Mar-17 21:24:29

Wales not thinking of the balance sheet?

Is that what the people of Wales were supposed to be doing, rather than voting on whether they wanted to stay in the EU or leave it? confused

LumpySpacedPrincess Fri 17-Mar-17 21:27:14

Yey, Little England here we come!

I remember the last vote a few years back, we had to hold back on our plans (I worked in a school) to see how it turned out. I was so relieved when Scotland voted remain, here we are again though.

It will break my heart if the UK splits apart but it's up to Scotland, their call, i don't blame them one bit.

Cindersdad Sat 18-Mar-17 07:32:26

The UK is Divided because the Establishment considers itself more than the whole. The Scots, Northerners, Welsh and many other parts of the population see the South being favoured and don't think it is fair. Brexit gave the people a chance to kick the Establishment; this showed divisions right across the country when EU membership was blamed for many wrongs and the good things from the EU largely ignored.

nigglynellie Sat 18-Mar-17 08:30:13

Empirical Britain?!!!! I don't really think the UK considers itself an Empire!!! confused

Iam64 Sat 18-Mar-17 08:45:56

Cindersdad has is right, the UK is divided because the power and the money rest in London and the south east. I was relieved at the outcome of the Scottish referendum because we're such a small country, better together I believe. I too understand it's possible another referendum could lead to a different outcome. As with the last one, I feel if a line could be drawn across the country, including everything north of Manchester in the west and say Leeds and the north east. Maybe we could then become a northern power house, rather than the northern poor house that currently exists.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 09:30:02

Apparently we are not the only ones who see the London centric 'rule' of the UK to be the problem.

Mr Brown will argue a new form of federal home rule is needed to unite the country and avoid years of "bitter division".

I must admit I think more federalisation would make for a more equal sense between the nations. I like the idea of the 'Bank of England' becoming the Bank of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

grannypiper Sat 18-Mar-17 09:32:35

Having been born and raised in Scotland, Lived in "the south" for 2 decades and now back living in Scotland i can honestly say the Scots are deluded, they think the south is the land of milk and honey and everyone who lives there is on easy street. I know how hard it is down south and how easy it is up here. For example, Take my Daughter aged 30 living in the south and my nephew aged 29 living in Scotland
Daughter in privately rented 2 bed flat with 2 children, she has 3 jobs,often starting at 6am and always finishing at 6pm, 6 days one week and 5 the next. Her Husband starts at 7 every morning but leaves the house at 5.45 to drive the 11 miles to work. He also works 6 days one week 5 the other. They have 1 5 year old car and their holiday is coming to Scotland to stay with me as they cant afford anything else.
My Daughter waited 18 moths for a eye operation and can only get a doctors appointment 10 days away. My Grandaughter is taught in a class of 34 in a leaky portacabin.
My Newphew has 2 children and lives in a brand new detatched 4 bed that he bought last year. He works Monday to Friday 9-4.30 and his wife is a part time nail technician.He has already had 4 stag weekends this year 3 abroad and 1 in London, his wife has just spent a girls week in Vegas.
His wife saw a doctor in August after the birth of their baby and asked for a tummy tuck, that she duly had in December on the NHS. An appointment with our doctors surgery
is often made for within the hour but rarely longer than 24 hours.
Their child is taught in a brand new school of less than 40.
Who has the life of riley ?

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 09:36:23

I agree with Cindersdad and Iam. I think the formation of the UK was part of the Empire building mode of England but in doing it the English gave up their Englishness to 'own' the UK, so not good for any of the countries.

I would also agree with Iam that if the North of England is not treated with some thought, allowing it to grow with an equality of investment then 'England' could also have a real problem.

rosesarered Sat 18-Mar-17 09:40:08

Says it all, doesn't it grannypiper housing alone is so cheap in Scotland.
If Scots realised how hard it is for some 'in the South' ( even those living in the North of England seem to think it's easy street here) then they wouldn't be able to complain about the North /South divide so much.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 09:40:55

I am not sure it is about whether London and the South have it easy grannypiper but whether you influence who you have given your sovereignty to. We all give ours to our government but I think it will be a long time before the Scots forget being under Tory rule when they have voted against it and now being Brexited when they have voted against that.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 09:45:55

Empirical Britain?!!!! I don't really think the UK considers itself an Empire!!!

So many exclamation marks Niggly!!!

No, nor do I but I do think that forming the UK was part of ENGLAND's empirical times.

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 09:48:12

I am not sure what the word Empirical is supposed to mean in this context? confused

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 09:50:37

Empirical is usually applied to evidence, eg as in chemistry confused

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 09:56:09

I may have it wrong Jelima but I mean Empire building which, to be honest - as this is not the pedants thread so it doesn't matter as long as you get what I mean - I would have thought was fairly obvious. I will use Empire building in future.

(I can start putting E & O E at the bottom of my posts as I did once before if you like. They do, as I have explained elsewhere, take me ages to type, so I am sorry if I was not thinking clearly about the meaning of that word)

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 09:56:45

Are you saying that the Welsh are stupid and were not thinking when they voted?

Think I will go off and read anniebach's lovely thread about Wales.

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 09:57:40

well, it was very confusing as empirical is not to do with Empire

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 09:58:05

no, it was not obvious at all.

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 09:59:54

empirical times is nothing to do with empire either in fact it is rather meaningless.

I am not being pedantic.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 10:02:05

It didn't seem to confuse anyone else. You are unkindly nit-picking. Niggly seemed to understand exactly what I meant and her post would have given you a really big hint if you had read it.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 10:05:34

"Are you saying that the Welsh are stupid and were not thinking when they voted?"

I did not say anything of the sort. The Welsh voted the way they did in spite of how it will affect their balance sheet. That is simply a fact.

You certainly seem to have either got out of bed the wrong side this morning.

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 10:06:10

I don't need a hint to know what empirical means thanks.

I am not being unkind, well, no more than your remarks about the Welsh.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 10:08:39

You obviously needed one to know what someone like me could have meant Jalima. So much knowledge of the meaning of a word and so little understanding of how people might get it wrong.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 18-Mar-17 10:10:02

This it just a distraction and I am sorry I have been so sensitive about it and let it distract from the point of the thread. I will ignore any more such posts. Sorry everyone.

Jalima Sat 18-Mar-17 10:12:08

You obviously needed one to know what someone like me could have meant Jalima
I still don't understand - why would someone like you get it wrong?
I always thought you seemed to be very well-informed on all the political threads