Article 50 trigger 29th March

"... silly posters on here I think." How rude magpie123.

And I am sure that all you leavers will be full of glee when people ate killed in Europe as the result of a terrorist incident that our intelligence forces knew was about to happen but wouldn't tell any European countries about because the EU was mean to us over Brexit.

What other 'big guns' are we going to produce? Do we have any that aren't immoral? So far the only thing the government has threatened has involved b8ggering up people's lives.

And people wonder why some of us are ashamed to be associated with Britain.

magpie im unclear how wanting grownup negotiations over shared enterprise constitutes negativity. I would consider it extremely positive.

petra that is utter rubbish. Senior diplomates in London who had seen the letter expressed surprise.

This is not a game of cat and mouse it should be a grown up negotiation about shared enterprise. How many deals are started that way and end successfully? Very few if any.

This government and in particular the 3 Brexiters plus one need to grow up fast and use what little intelligence they have so far displayed - although i wont hold my breath.

Silly letter, silly posters on here I think. Everything negative, only doom and gloom on the horizon, moan moan moan. Negatives negatives negatives.

I loved the reference to security in the letter. From June 24th 2016 the eu have made it very clear they are going to make it a difficult split.
This isn't a vicars tea party. You have to use every weaponry in your arsenal and we have fired one of our big guns early in the fight. Get in first and get in quick.
If these are such clever people they should know what our strong points are, and this is one of our biggest. It shouldn't have come as a surprise.

Intelligence co- operation

What diplomatic row?

See we are already trying to calm a diplomatic row after the silly letter. So we cant get even the initial contact right. We lack a distinct lack of ability in our government - doesnt fill you with confidence for the future does it?

Daphne I don't disagree. My point was rather that I doubt most people, including those who voted for the sensible option, really understood the issues. Or put even more bluntly, I agree with Ken Clarke that you can't trust referendums as a sensible means of deciding complex one off issues.

Paul Nuttall wants full control of our borders. Can't wait for France to move the border to Dover.

My MEPs are still working, apart from the UKIP one. I bet he's still claiming his pay, though.

The other two have sent me an email to say what they are doing.

"At present Paul is working on EU legislation to tackle climate change and looking at how to increase the number of jobs in the North East in the forestry and timber sectors with specific reference to increasing the use of timber in construction. Jude is currently on maternity leave but is still monitoring EU trade deals such as the upcoming free trade deal with Japan. Both of us will continue to monitor negotiations between the UK and the EU from inside the Parliament as well as campaigning to protect the rights of UK citizens in the EU, and your rights as our constituents in the North East.

We are therefore writing to let you know that if you have any problems or issues that you think either of us can help you with then, as far as we are concerned, it is business as usual. As long as we are your elected representatives and for as long as the UK is a paying member of the EU we will endeavour to do whatever we can to help."

The difference is Fitzy that being "in" was the default situation. We knew what it was like - warts and all. The UK has prospered over the last 40 years. The problems were caused by neglec of many parts of the country and society by our own governments. What has happened is dragging us all into the unknown, including our children, who had no say in the matter.

If you look closely at the issues involved, it's obvious to most people that there can never be the outcome all the 52% want. It's a huge waste of time and money - for virtually nothing.

People who voted for Ukip MEPs should ask themselves what their elected representatives did - apart from wasting money. MEPs and MPs could and should have made a difference to the EU itself,but didn't.

It is possible to write to Barnier, Juncker or Verhafstadt at the EU building in Brussels. If anyone would like the address I can get it for you. I know a of a lot of people who have written and there are also petition type letters. People who voted Remain are being treated in a far better manner by Brussels than by London. Having heard that a deputation fromExpats in Europe have been to see Barnier the Office for Brexit have now given a meeting with officials in London next week - up till now all requests had been ignored!

I agree, Ginny. Hence the emphasis on Great Britain, and a global Britain. How come global does not include Europe?

Article 50 has been triggered, but we can turn back.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/first-eu-response-to-article-50-takes-tough-line-on-transitional-deal

It's up to the other 27 states to accept May's letter. They might not.

Mazie i think what you say is spot on - a huge number of people voted leave without really understanding or thing things through. To be fair I imagine a lot of people voted remain without spending a lot of time thinking about it.

Me too GG.

Penstemmon that is exactly what I've thought every time someone trotted out the argument, 'they need us more than we need them'. I simply don't get it. Is it arrogance or ignorance?

Is this mode of thinking perhaps a remnant of colonial zeal from when the British conquered vast areas of the globe in the name of various monarchs?

It just makes me want to weep.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39446778
i heard most of this whilst driving today.

Untied Kingdom - I read this on the Guardian website today and I thought how apt! Just seen that Nicola Sturgeon is going ahead with asking for powers to hold a second Scottish independence referendum.

Not been well enough to respond to events of the last two days, but have been following the thread.

Interesting graph from twitter today. Shows that for the past decade fewer than 10% of the British population have thought that the EU was one of the most important issues facing Britain.

It makes you wonder where all this passionate anti-EU feeling has suddenly sprung from. Or perhaps that people thought it was so unimportant that they voted Leave without really looking at the issues...

I know mostlyharmless - I do wonder what is happening to our democracy.

One of the ironies of the Henry VIII laws, that are likely to be used to allow legislation to be enacted or amended without going through Parliament, is that Henry VIII broke away from Rome just about 500 years ago in 1532. He wanted to reclaim sovereignty and resented the Roman Catholic Church taking money from his Kingdom. Also there was the little matter of wanting to change the law to allow him to divorce his Spanish wife.
Too many parallels here!

I get the impression that the divisions are hardening too. I am not sure waiting for the elderly to die off is the answer.

They were talking about the Henry VIII powers today to convert the 5% of laws that come from the EU. I have heard higher - much higher - figures so I wonder where this came from. Apparently the majority of them are to do with business.

I wonder just how disappointed both sides will be when this is all over. I do believe we will make the best of it but why oh why do people think going back 40 years will help. We always have to forward whether we wanted to stay in or come out. Is anyone actually going to get what they wanted or expected.