Article 50 trigger 29th March

I think some of us can read the Daily Mail without taking it as gospel - a bit like the Bible really - we can think and reason and read other publications.

What did it say today? [gasp]
I have been busy elsewhere, with steam coming out of my ears.

There are a myriad factors for the negotiators to deal with. And they dont have 2 years. You can't close a border and start checking passports and manifests for customs purposes overnight.

Oh ana what a shame - we've been chatting away all day without anything like your remark. I hoped that you had something positive to contribute. I think I live in hope but will die in despair.

Why should it upset Daily Mail readers mostlyharmless?

(Silly statement, whitewave)

Everything upsets the DM readers

I read somewhere that the complexity of Brexit negotiations, and the resulting return to the UK of administration of regulations which have been carried out by EU officials for the last few decades, will mean a huge expansion of the Civil Service will be needed both short and long-term. The Civil Service has been shrinking for years leaving swathes of empty offices in Whitehall.
That will upset the Daily Mail readers!

Barnier seems quite clear that the UK itself is choosing to leave the Single Market and Customs Union.

He is also clear that negotiating trade deals will not be possible until after the negotiations:

"It is not too early to start outlining the contours of our new partnership today, even if it is too early to start negotiating.

There will be a free-trade agreement at the centre of this partnership, which we will negotiate with the United Kingdom in due course.

This free-trade agreement cannot be equivalent to what exists today. And we should all prepare ourselves for that situation.

The United Kingdom chooses to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union. It will be a third country in two years from now.

By making this choice, the United Kingdom will naturally find itself in a less favourable situation than that of a Member State.

It will not be possible to cherry-pick and be a participant in parts of the Single Market."

I thought Davies was claiming that the deal would be as good as the one we have now. I also seem to remember the Brexiters claiming that we would still be in the Single Market and we could have some kind of deal like Switzerland and Norway have.

The last I read, there are still over 300 vacancies for UK negotiators. The target was to recruit 1,000. Hmm...I wonder how much that lot will cost.

Just read it dd . Must try and remember to look on that site on a regular basis - perhaps you can jog our memory if you see more info please?

Interesting in the totally different approach. Europe is keen for transparency and inclusion, May is for secrecy and exclusion until the end when she may (nothing written remember) condescend to give the Commons a vote.

Well we certainly won't be told by our useless government who are too scared in case anyone should dare disagree.

It is always on the cards that we should have to turn to Europe for the progress.

If anybody's interested in following negotiations, Michael Barnier has promised to keep people informed and be transparent:

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-17-723_en.htm

I can't believe the 3 amigos are suddenly waking up to reality. More likely they are panicking as they realise the impossibility of some of their promises and the Herculean task they've undertaken.

Immigration seemed to be the top reason (not the only reason) for people voting for Brexit. But, by making new trade deals around the world (for example the government is planning to sign new deals with Australia, India, US, China and lots more) we will have had to offer concessions on immigrant visas as part of those deals. Then businesses dependent on European workers (agriculture for a start) will insist on negotiating special arrangements. A high percentage of our immigration has been from the Commonwealth countries anyway which should be unaffected by Brexit.
I can't really see that immigration numbers will drop much as a direct result of Brexit clampdowns. If the UK economy goes into meltdown post-Brexit, lack of jobs would stop immigrants coming! Obviously a very undesirable outcome for everyone!

"The broad claims of the referendum campaign are starting to dissolve into the pixelated reality of policy, practicality and compromise. According to a senior government source, a wonderful irony is now manifesting itself around the cabinet table in the contributions of Liam Fox, David Davis and Boris Johnson: “There’s no doubt that Theresa wants to bring down immigration. But the three main Brexiteers are suddenly becoming more and more vocal about the need to keep the numbers sufficiently high for the needs of the economy. You hear Liam saying: ‘We mustn’t do anything that threatens prosperity.’ It’s becoming more and more clear to them what’s at stake.”
In their defence Fox, Davis and Johnson would doubtless insist that their demand was only ever to “take back control” of immigration from the EU, rather than specifically to reduce the number of newcomers. But this was always disingenuous.

The message that the voters heard loud and clear was that escaping the grip of Brussels would mean fewer foreigners coming to Britain. As Deborah Mattinson’s fascinating Britainthinks panel surveys have shown, leave voters interpret “hard Brexit” unequivocally as being “tough on immigrants” and are uninterested in economic counter-arguments. What motivates leavers, Mattinson concludes, is “broader cultural issues”. "

From the Guardian.

The Observer editorial in yesterday's paper is very hard hitting:
"Like sheep, the British people, regardless of whether they support Brexit, are being herded off a cliff, duped and misled by the most irresponsible, least trustworthy government in living memory. The moment when article 50 is triggered, signalling Britain’s irreversible decision to quit the EU, approaches inexorably. This week, on Black Wednesday, the UK will throw into jeopardy the achievements of 60 years of unparalleled European peace, security and prosperity from which it has greatly benefited. And for what?"
I just hope that May and her team see sense and negotiate for a "customs union" softer Brexit for the sake of our children and grandchildren.

I don't see that anyone who believes we either shouldn't leave or that we should be very careful in how we leave in the hope that we can grow together again has absolutely no need to justify those thoughts. After all what other than lazy and lying rhetoric have we heard to justify leaving?

People have always followed Pied Pipers who have promised the earth to those feeling they don't have what they believe they once did but that someone else does. It is our governments/political parties who should have recognised this and done something about it and now this government will let the country be punished for its failings.

Inflation is on the rise and that will hit poor people in the shopping basket. The reasonably affluent will be much less affected.

petra Prices have gone up a lot to those on very low incomes.

Yes, I think people have forgotten that Ginny42. There are people who would love to see a new war and cause division in our society. Maybe they'll think differently when their own children and grandchildren are conscripted and killed.

Leaving the EU was the most stupid decision the "will of the people" has ever made. The tragedy is that so many people voted in protest against the current government. They are about to find out that that they will be even worse off.

It was never the the EU which caused their issues, but their own government.

A major influence on my vote to remain in the EU was the hope that never again would a war be fought on European soil resulting in millions of deaths.

"This week the U.K. Will throw into jeopardy the achievements of 60 years of unparalleled European peace, security and prosperity. The hard Tory Bre it in prospect represents an epic act of self-harm. And, far from reuniting a fractured kingdom, Theresa May has divided it further"

Observer. 26/03/17

TriciaF Prices have gone up a bit. There are several houses/ apartments near me over £1 million. Although that's not what you would call central Southend. I always say I live in Southend as it's what everyone knows.

Did Theresa May have a day off today?
Everything seemed to be going on without her.

From the March today

Says it all really

Southend folk are very friendly - it's cheap and cheerful. At least it was when we lived there 15 years ago.