Martin McGuinness

To blame one contributor to the conflict is to misrepresent events.

Does this mean we are only blaming McGuinness for acts of violence, trisher?

We're talking about him because he's dead!

rar so it's OK to criticise the peace process but not OK to question that?
TerriBull I have sympathy for all the victims of violence but I am not so blind that I don't understand that there were victims on all sides of the conflict and sometimes innocent bystanders were victims of the violence perpetrated by all the parties in this. My main complaint is that successive British governments failed to deal effectively with the conflict and in fact escalated and perpetuated the violence. To blame one contributor to the conflict is to misrepresent events.

I expect what Norman Tebbit says is probably true or partly so. But it's had the desired effect, so for that we must be grateful.

Not unable but cannot debate with somebody who has your views on this trisher

Do supporters of firebrands have any empathy with innocent victims or is it all about the cause

Only a disgruntled Conservative could rubbish a process which has brought years of peace. rar but I accept you are unable to give another explanation for his words.
merlotgran whatever the reason they did it, and there was at the time considerable opposition from other IRA members with real experience of dealing out punishments to those who stepped out of line. So it wasn't simply a question of doing something safe and easy.

I think so too.

It's too much to expect a person who has seen a loved one experience such pain to be dispassionate about an individual who was one of a group responsible for that. Personally I'd hate them for ever and it would colour my judgement henceforth. Disgruntled is really an understatement, Colin Parry's words were indeed eloquent there can't be a day that goes by when he doesn't think of his young son and what he, as a parent, lost that day. Under the circumstance I think Norman Tebbit is entitled to feel the way he does.

When Tony Blair made his speech about the peace train leaving the station and anyone not on it would be left behind (or words to that effect) McGuiness, Adams, et al, ripped off their balaclavas and jumped aboard. Even the IRA hardliners could see the writing was on the wall.

Good career move.

stop digging trisher It's plain what you said, to you, he is simply a disgruntled
Conservative.I refuse to debate your comments any more.

Mandela's history Luckygirl
He signed off on the deaths of innocent people, lots of them

Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights

-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983

-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985

-Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988

-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986

-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988 – limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya instead

-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987

-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988

Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”

He wasn't a saint he was a freedom fighter who suffered for his beliefs

Nobody has accused any Conservative of any "atrocity" rar simply of ill considered and unhelpful comments. I await your reason for his rubbishing the agreement which has brought peace to NI.

You chose not to say ' a disgruntled man' ( plenty to be disgruntled about) but 'a disgruntled Conservative', says it all really.You would never have said ' a disgruntled Labour ' etc.He was very likely right anyway about the IRA, they knew they weren't getting anywhere and there were divsions and falling outs amongst themselves.
Wouldn't it be nice if some posters left party politics out of some posts and had a bit of that overused word ( but in this case needed) compassion.

I do not think that Mandela could be described as a terrorist; but McGuiness definitely falls into that category.

Unfortunately you cannot stop a war without negotiating with some very unpleasant people; but I was never sure that going on to put these people in positions of power and responsibility was the right move.

History tells us that the Irish Catholics had had a raw deal - but I find it hard to see that as an excuse for masterminding he wholesale slaughter of innocent people.

I too walked out of a Birmingham shop and it blew up behind me - I could have finished up as an IRA statistic but for a few moments.

I find it hard to mourn his death.

Exactly Merlot...... it's as if Conservatives are considered fair game for any atrocity.

He could perfectly well have expressed his feelings about McGuiness without making reference to the peace process rosesarered. He chose not to do so, but to say that it was unnecessary and the IRA was infiltrated and would have been defeated anyway. Saying such things is quite likely to feed division and create conflict at a time when things in NI are unstable. Why would he do such a thing? Disgruntled is the only reason I can imagine. If you have another explanation for his saying such things I am willing to listen.

Colin Parry, father of Tim Parry, killed by the Warrington IRA bomb said , on learning of McGuiness's death: " I can't forgive him, but I can respect the man he became." Eloquent and poignant. I agree with Mr. Parry's form of humanity.

I can't see what on earth Norman Tebbit's politics has to do with it. Surely he'd be just as angry and embittered if he and his wife were working in the hotel that night and nothing to do with the conference.

trisher says....' Norman Tebbit is a disgruntled Conservative ' am afraid trisher that is the kind of remark that does you no favours, in fact, it's disgraceful of you.

You would think not wouldn't you Pamela but apparently some do believe that.

I think I said the exact opposite!

So, let me get this right, some of you are saying that because others behaved in an atrocious way in the past. M McG was quite justified in killing?
Surely no one believes that.

Tebbit's feelings about McGuiness are understandable, rubbishing the peace process was unnecessary. Such language and rhetoric doesn't help and actually creates conflict.

Politics aside, Norman Tebbit's feelings are personal because as Anya has said his wife was left paralysed when the IRA bombed the hotel in Brighton where they were staying during a Conservative Party Conference. Hand on heart who could say they would not hate those who had inflicted such a violent act on a person they loved.

It's perfectly understandable for Norman Tebbit to feel the way he does and I don't think there is anything disgruntled at all in his attitude. To see one's beloved spouse paralysed for the rest of her life from the neck downwards through the actions of terrorism must be very hard indeed and impossible to reconcile. I don't agree with wishing Martin McG to eternal damnation, but I can understand it.