Martin McGuinness

Norman Tebbit is a man whose wife was left paralysed by an IRA bomb ?

Norman Tebbit is a disgruntled Conservative who resented the peace protest. The Conservative's record on dealing with the IRA was appalling and ineffective. Anyone remember the ridiculous policy on not allowing their voices to be heard? It did lead to a number of hilarious comedy skits. Terrorism arises when governments fail to listen to the complaints of a group of its citizens, in NI the catholics in South Africa black Africans. Moving from terrorism to statesmanship is the real mark of the man and Martin McGuiness did this. So before you simply condemn him for his activities with the IRA ask yourself where would we be if he had not worked for peace and how many more people would be dead?
Personally I recognise the complaints that catholics had in NI and the reluctance of successive governments to deal with these. What was a peaceful civil rights movement was escalated into violence by their actions.

Norman Tebbit hit the nail on the head. I can't remember his actual comment but it was along the lines of the world being a sweeter place without him and that Hell has a place for him, now. I know I've got the wording wrong, but I do agree.
The out and out cruelty of this man and his followers beggars belief.
I hope he never rests in peace. Ever.

For very personal reasons I agree with grey duster, not sure I can forgive his history.

No R.I.P. from me. He was responsible for too many deaths, some of them he carried out himself probably. And he did very nicely out of the peace process

Blair fell over backwards to pander to the IRA, and other terrorist organisations, even when the tide had turned against them. Now we have the situation in Birmingham where the perpetrators of the Birmingham bombings are known but unable TP be prosecuted because of his ridiculous amnesty. Twenty-one dead and no one brought to justice.

Degradation and discrimination by Protestants against Catholics has been rife for centuries. That does not make it right and is not what the IRA were hoping to eradicate. In many ways the sectarianism played into the hands of the IRA in their aim to have a United Ireland. Martin McGuinness was a young man brought up on the 'fire in the belly' politics of the time and it was no surprise he originally got involved in civil rights protests. However, he was a determined and clear-headed individual and although he was promoted within the ranks of the IRA he could see that murders and bombings were not going to achieve anything but retaliation and hatred from Northern Ireland itself and mainland Britain, who sent in the army.

Many people on both sides questioned his honesty and intentions when he moved into politics and, with his past history, it was a brave thing to do. He worked hard in the peace negotiations and deserves respect for his work in getting the DUP to work with Sinn Fein at Stormont. RIP Mr McGuinness

God works in mysterious ways!!

Sitting outside and having no Irish connections at all, both sides seemed as appalling as each other - and the extremists still do. I understand how those involved much more intimately than I have such strong views on Martin McGuiness. But to me, I see two men, Martin McGuineess and Ian Paisley, who started by loathing each other and what they stood for, and had the strength of character to overcome the hatred to become good friends working for peace, and able to show the world that whatever the starting point there is an opportunity for reconciliation in the most unexpected places.

I too have a paternal Irish g.grandmother who came from County Cork. Her father was a Weaver and she came to England for whatever reason, I guess financial, married an Englishman and the rest is history, so I do have sympathy with how atrociously the Irish were treated by England over many centuries, and how disgracefully Catholics were treated in NI. BUT nothing on this earth justified the violence meeted out by both sides of the divide,whatever the reason and however sincerely felt. To obtain peace and cooperation both sides had to sup with their particular devil which to their credit they did, and I hope that both Martin McGuiness and Iain Paisley (the chuckle brothers!!) find peace with God.

As someone who lived in Belfast through the worst of 'the troubles', I too am ambivalent about the death of Martin McGuiness.

When it all kicked off, I was a student and avid supporter of 'one man (sic), one vote'. Only fair in what should have been a democratic society. Catholics were definitely discriminated against in many ways. However, the IRA had another agenda and that was a United Ireland separate from U.K. I am not averse to that either. In process of applying for my Irish passport to remain an EU citizen.

At the time, they chose to roll out this agenda by random and widespread acts of horrendous violence on innocent civilians. Bombs were planted in the early days mainly in the centre of Belfast without any warning almost every day at one point. The city centre was decimated. Men, women and children were killed and seriously maimed. And like you, Coolgran I had several near misses. Some of my acquaintances were not so lucky. Inevitably, it turned into even more horrendous tit for tat civil war.

And Martin McGuiness, Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly were involved in this. Hardly surprising then that people who lived through this and suffered, are finding it difficult to forget. And Anniebach I know all about the 'freedom fighter' argument. But IMO no one has any right to take the life of another just for idealistic reasons. Not then, not now.

On the other hand, I admired M McG for his strength of character in working for the Peace Process and following through on the agreement. Our current 'politicians' need to emulate them and stop their petty backbiting. So yes I do find it difficult to forget the past. But acknowledge the turnabout he made to bring N Ireland out of the awful mess it was in. The world could do with more of that.

IMO he was a man of 2 parts and I feel both parts should be acknowledged, not just one - both had huge impacts.

I agree that innocents on both sides should be remembered. There were terrible atrocities on both sides over the years. I have visited a famine graveyeard in Ireland - a field of grass where the bodies were just thrown in. It was the saddest thing. However, I agree with Terribull there has to be another way. In the end talking won the day I suppose.

I just wrote a long vitriolic post - and then wiped it. We spent nearly three years in Northern Ireland from 1972, and lost friends and colleagues. McGuiness and his compatriots have more blood on their hands than they will want to admit to when they have to meet their maker, but no doubt God will forgive them. It's in his job description after all. I'm still struggling with whether I can.

In my opinion, He will go down in history as the man that he was. A murderer.

like all wars and the "troubles" were war there were TWO sides who caused it,and then there was the UK government ...maybe without the soldiers and the tanks it would have been sorted much quicker ,government intervention certainly didn't appease people .My family were Irish and as Rigby46 says the treatment of catholics in the 6 counties was appalling.It was about civil rights for the catholic population and if they had had any support from the UK government way back in the beginning it wouldn't have escalated as it did.Look south of the Irish border where catholics and protestants have lived side by side since partition with no problems .Mr McGuinness may have done wron in his youth....as many on all sides did,but he worked hard to get peace and we should give him credit for that

Although we cannot forget old history, there was no famine or brutal landowners in the 1960's and 70's.
It was a political organisation, that wanted to acheive it's own ends.

My late Grandma was an Irish Catholic. Thrown out of the church for marrying the love of her life but welcomed back with open arms after my dear grandfathers death. Good of them eh?

Not sure there is much explaining to do in Hell Stansgran I think it's probably a place that anyone can get into no matter what.

I grew up in a family of Irish ancestry Catholics, and none of them had any time for the IRA and it's leaders.

The man was a murderer so can't feel sad at hearing about his death. I wonder if he ever spared a thought for those he murdrered /had murdered?

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

. If we are remembering the innocents who died st the hands of the IRA let us remember the innocents who died during the pots to famine at the hands of English landowners and the innocents gunned down on Bloody Sunday.

All Catholics did not support the IRA and their awful regime.NI wanted, and still wants to stay as part of the UK and not a united Ireland.
If the IRA had not existed and been murderously active, then there would have been no need for any defence force to act against them or indeed, a peace process.

Coolgran - what went before included centuries of appalling injustice and atrocities against Catholics. I'm sorry you had direct experience but there were many like you on both sides. Terri and niggly - very thoughtful and measured posts.
Mandela was called a terrorist by some Conservatives and yet where would SA be without him?

This is a difficult one for me. The troubles were appalling, and I hear all you say. When I think of Tim Parry and Jonathon Ball, Jean (surname I can't remember) Captain Niarak (spelling?) and countless others who were murdered in NI, my instincts are good riddance, BUT, he was instrumental in the peace process which would have faile(d without his rather strange rapport with Ian Paisley! So I think good overcame evil on all fronts, and I hope that he finds peace with God. (if he exists!!!)

I feel ambiguous about Martin McGuinness's death, on one hand I agree with you Merlotgran. However, I always had sympathies with the injustices the Catholics in Northern Ireland suffered, having been brought up a Catholic and with one half Irish grandparent it was hard not to. However, random killings in the name of a cause can never be justified, never. I agree with KatyK "I have no time for terrorists" there has to be another way. Working in London through the '70s and '80s I can remember that ever present fear of where the next bomb might be and ultimately my sympathies are greater for all those who lost their lives at the hands of either side, rather than the Catholic cause. However, I'm not delighted by his death becuase ultimately he worked to bring about peace.