Brexit all done and dusted?

?? daphnedill
Are "forebears" not ancestors??

Kakistracy rules! What a sad legacy to leave to our forebears

The view from the EU

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit?CMP=share_btn_link

Yes I've always understood that it is revocable from reading A50. It seems sensible to me if the alternative is to shoot ourselves in the foot.

I think Gina Miller's intention is to give voters information in relation to each constituency that will help identify the candidates who will strongly oppose hard Brexit and have the best chance of winning.

This information should help many voters make the best choice, although the FPTP voting system is still a huge challenge to evercome.

The more LibDem MPs elected, the better the outcome, although if you lived in Ken Clarke's patch you might support him or vote for Caroline Lucas in Brighton. There will be other places where the best choice could be a Labour MP who is neither a Brexiter nor a Corbynite.

As I understand it, she says she would then hope that the final deal after negotiations would be put to the vote in Parliament with the option of staying in the EU - i.e. it would be a meaningful vote, not just a choice of bad deal or worse deal (WTO rules).

Do remember that the legal expert who draughted Article 50 has stated clearly that it IS revocable.

varian. Miller - what do you think of her idea?

Do not forget that the majority of sitting MPs actually voted to Remain, but all of the Tories, with the honourable exception of Ken Clarke, and a lot of Labour MPs were bullied into triggering Article 50, against their better judgement. It looks like their political careers were more important to them than what they honestly judged to be in the best interests of their constituencies and the country.

Let's hope we can get rid of the Brexiters and elect MPs with integrity who will stand up for the 63% of the electorate who did not vote for any kind of Brexit, let alone a hard Brexit.

The Liberal Democrats will not acquiese in giving away our place in the world and our grandchildren's future.

The UK politicians do not really understand the rules of the EU or the ECJ despite being members of both for years. The exception to this is Nick Clegg being really European and working there for years and Ken Clarke has probably made it his business to understand the rules but no one is listening the them.

There is not going to be any reversing out of Brexit, even if Labour win outright. I would very much like a viable trade deal with the EU, but to get that the EU will have to soften its stance on free movement. I'm starting to see that as a possibility. I think TM, with new intake of moderate MPs, might meet the EUhalfway with some sort of deal on immigration. But all just hopeful speculation on my part really.

If enough of us vote Lib Dem, Labour or SNP Brexit can be stopped in its tracks.

So 'Saint Jeremy of Islington' et al will reverse a democratic vote then Cindersdad? Even though we all know that he probably voted for Brexit and has been consistently anti-EU for many years?
Then the SNP will lead the Scots into independence and leave the English and the Welsh with the results of their anti-democratic actions.

I cannot follow the logic of that argument at all.

Ah well! I'm not persauasive enough to persuade everybody to use their brains.

Sorry you don't have the ability to understand my logic.

Perhaps people have enough 'brains' and 'logic' to think differently to you, though daphnedill.
Your logic has led you to believe that someone who thinks differently to you must be wrong.
Their logic may lead them to believe that their way is the right way and yours is wrong.

Who is to say?

(I am genuinely interested by the way. I don't spend too much time watching or thinking about politics as my life seems to fill with other miscellany and I'm a bear of very little brain. I miss a lot and reading all your arguments and points of view is very interesting.
But I still think we should come out of the EU.)

With the French elections happening I've been paying a little more attention to that country - I generally only watch the BBC news and they only report explosions. I'd been under the impression that it was doing well economically. Up there with Germany. But they're not. (I was surprised how much anti-EU sentiment there is.). So who exactly, other than Germany, is doing well out of the EU? Certainly not Greece, Italy, Spain, Belgium, or after initial benefits and building schemes, the Eastern European countries who're training doctors and dentists who then (along with most of their working population) move west.

Ah well! I'm not persauasive enough to persuade everybody to use their brains.

Sorry you don't have the ability to understand my logic.

Kakistracy rules! What a sad legacy to leave to our forebears.

While I was away in Brussels hearing the EU side of the argument St. Theresa of Bray asked us to give her support and celebrated by making herself a style icon with the "Mmy Bob Cut". Anyway enough of this frivolity because we now have chance to turn the tables. If enough of us vote Lib Dem, Labour or SNP Brexit can be stopped in its tracks.

The Election may go the way TM hopes because of the FPTP system but the overall vote count, though tainted by tactical voting, will show what the country really thinks.

If it what wasn't so serious it would be unbelievable. World politics bereft of leadership - a worrying situation.

No idea what you are saying dd I was making a comment and not implying anything.

Everybody will have to get used to us leaving the EU Time to leave all this bitterness behind.Whichever Party gets in at the GE will implement Brexit.

So dd everybody ( over 17 million) are 'mad' are they? Because they voted to Leave and you didn't..... can't see the logic.

Oh yes Ww. It will rank alongside the the French Revolution, the English Civil War, WW2 as significant turning points in history.

No Ana it's people who think that leaving the EU will result in something better who are clutching at straws.

Yes dd I actually think that this will be a fascinating period in future. Especially if you look at the bigger picture. Living through it won't be so brilliant though, and I worry for our grandchildren. But historically it will be such a good period to study.

MargaretX Of course there must be freedom of movement. To think otherwise is madness.

Hmm...I wish I had any confidence in the "will of the people". As far as I'm concerned, they really are mad and I can perfectly well understand why the rest of the EU seems to think they're mad.

I just wish that that a couple of percent hadn't dragged me into this collective madness.

What on earth are you implying rosesarered? Surely you don't live in a time warp. I have a horrible feeling that you are.

I don't live in hope. I follow what's going on and find it all fascinating. It's instructive about how people behave. Of course, I'll do my bit to prevent this suicide, but I doubt if it will make any difference.

I just wonder how students will in the future answer the questions "Explain how an unpopular government became so successful" or "Explain the downfall of the UK". I expect it will keep academics occupied for decades or centuries. Meanwhile, the majority of UK citizens will suffer, because they'll be players in the downfall.

As ever, I'll do my best to survive on a personal level.

Oh, you all live in hope, don't you...? Talk about clutching at straws.

If Banks and co are found guilty of cheating does that mean that the result of the advisory referendum will be declared null andvoid?