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Brexit all done and dusted?

(857 Posts)
Cindersdad Sun 02-Apr-17 16:47:13

As an arch REMOANER I for one (of many) will not simply roll over and say that is that. As things progress at the very least parliament must ensure that the country does not Brexit in a bad way because of "The Will of the People". So many lies were told by both side at the time of referendum that when the full facts come to light a re-think should be considered.

I have yet to hear a sound reason for voting LEAVE. Of course the EU is far from perfect but we are better trying to change it from within than sniping from outside. A general election or second referendum before the point of absolute no return.

I happen to be visiting Brussels on an educational trip after Easter so until then I will put up and shut up unless really provoked.

Chewbacca Sun 16-Apr-17 10:35:27

He did indeed Jalima , and I don't recall anyone demanding that religion and politics be "kept separate " then. Must only be Theresa May who should keep her religious views to herself. hmm

durhamjen Sun 16-Apr-17 10:37:52

You don't recall that? Lots of people did at the time, I recall. Just shows we remember what we want to remember.

POGS Sun 16-Apr-17 10:40:26

DJ

Sorry but anytime Alistair Campbell is rolled out by a poster to prove/make a their point I wonder what the heck they see in him.

Nice to know Rigby you think Corbyn, Farron and May are ALL cheap, cheap, cheap for making Easter Messages. Personally I don't have a problem , each to their own I guess.

durhamjen Sun 16-Apr-17 10:43:43

Alastair Campbell said "We don't do God," and Blair was told by his advisers not to use the phrase God bless you at the end of his speech.
That is sort of demanding that religion and politics be kept separate.

durhamjen Sun 16-Apr-17 10:45:40

I don't see anything in Alastair Campbell, but you must agree he proves the point in both instances.

I think that Corbyn's message was a good one and spoken to all the people. Haven't heard Farron's yet so can't judge.

Chewbacca Sun 16-Apr-17 10:45:43

Didn't stop him though eh dj ?

durhamjen Sun 16-Apr-17 10:50:51

Didn't stop him doing what, Chewbacca?

MaizieD Sun 16-Apr-17 11:38:18

I don't think that any secular leader should hi-jack a christian festival to give out political messages.

MaizieD Sun 16-Apr-17 11:41:28

I had to smile at Maisie's suggestion that 'Remoaner' was the ultimate insult. If that is the worst insult anyone has suffered, they must have lived a very sheltered life.

And I have to smile at your, and others, inability to read sarcasm...grin

whitewave Sun 16-Apr-17 11:41:49

It will almost certainly not have the effect she is hoping for. The British simply do not do God in the conventional sense. We are as QE1 suggested much happier if we did not wear religion on our sleeves

Chewbacca Sun 16-Apr-17 11:43:08

What selective memories some have grin

POGS Sun 16-Apr-17 11:43:46

DJ

I don't follow.

You bring Alistair Campbell into the fray who tells May to tread carefully about ' bringing faith into politics '. Another of your post suggests there should be a distancing of religion and politics.

Yet you appear to have no issue with Corbyn and Fallon making Easter Messages.

I understand anybody who finds the message wording annoying but why is only one Political Leader is singled out for making an Easter Message .

whitewave Sun 16-Apr-17 11:48:42

Perhaps because she is the PM pogs?

Ana Sun 16-Apr-17 11:58:11

And a Tory.

Chewbacca Sun 16-Apr-17 11:58:56

WW, genuine question, did you feel the same way when Tony Blair made references to his religious beliefs when he made speeches too?

Rigby46 Sun 16-Apr-17 11:59:32

Whilst I've made it clear that I don't think ANY political leader should deliver an Easter Message, I made TM the headline figure because a) she's PM and b) the rank hypocrisy in what she says about Christian values and the examples I gave in my post is beyond cheap. I am not religious at all but the friends that I have who are ( one is a Vicar) are the very opposite of her - they live and breathe their Christianity and it shines through all they do. They do much to help those affected by austerity and the benefit cuts.

Chewbacca Sun 16-Apr-17 12:06:01

Extract from the Economist:

"But certain religious virtues always seemed lacking in Mr Blair as prime minister. One of the aims of most forms of spiritual development is to cultivate an appropriate sense of humility and self-awareness: a sense of one’s own fallibility, and a sense of how one appears to others, an ability to empathise, at least momentarily, with onlookers in very different places. At the height of his internationalist fervour, Mr Blair had little feeling for how Britain and other European powers were viewed by those members of the United Nations (about two-thirds of them) with recent memories of colonisation. He therefore had little sense of how hard it would be to convince the world that Britain deployed its army in a spirit of disinterested concern for humanity.

And above all, he lacked the sense, which is deep-rooted in the great religions, that human overconfidence can have unintended consequences. In his Chicago speech in April 1999, Mr Blair laid out a set of guidelines for intervention: it must be militarily feasible, peaceful options must have been tried, some national interests must be at stake. To many a politician from the developing world, there was something insufferably arrogant about an arch-colonial power asserting the right to intervene at its own discretion in situations where wrongs need righting, and regimes need changing.
To make a huge generalisation, the practice of religion tends to make people either more proud or more humble. Mr Blair’s spiritual journey is still, of course, a work in progress. But there has never been much sign of religion making him more humble."

POGS Sun 16-Apr-17 12:09:13

WW

Tosh.

The truth is ' ALL ' Prime Ministers have made Easter Messages.

The irony is those who espouse that there is no place for 'using' religion in politics have done exactly that to try and have a go at their number one go to target, Theresa May.

As for your comment " The British simply do not do God in the conventional sense. " I am happy to celebrate other faiths and religions and I am happy for those ' who do God ' in whatever form it takes to celebrate their belief and that includes Easter just as much as Diwali or Eid etc.

whitewave Sun 16-Apr-17 12:25:58

pogs you missed my point entirely about the British and religion.

Not sure what your elegant "tosh" is meant to convey

durhamjen Sun 16-Apr-17 17:23:56

POGS, tosh.
I did not say I had no issue with Corbyn or Fallon making Easter messages.
If you read Corbyn's it is to me in the true spirit of Easter. May's speech is not. I agree with Rigby about using May as the figurehead.
Strange that you should want them all to be treated in the same way considering you think Corbyn immaterial in other ways.
I said I hadn't seen Fallon's so could not comment.
Try and get your facts right.

varian Sun 16-Apr-17 17:36:51

DJ Do you mean Fallon as in Michael Fallon, defense minister or Tim Farron, leader of the Liberal Democrats?

nigglynellie Sun 16-Apr-17 17:50:09

Difference between a man /woman of God and a PM is that one devotes themselves entirely to good works, whilst the other has a country to run and therefore has to strike a balance. I would have thought this was fairly obvious

Ana Sun 16-Apr-17 17:56:10

Why on earth would Michael Fallon be making an Easter speech to the nation?

Jalima1108 Sun 16-Apr-17 18:07:34

Have May, Corbyn and Farron all delivered Easter messages? I must have missed them grin
I thought it was the prerogative of the Pope and the A of C.

varian Sun 16-Apr-17 18:27:09

Tim Farron, who is a Christian, but not a sanctimonious one like Theresa May, has delivered an Easter message which actually makes a lot of sense. Here it is -

www.libdemvoice.org/tim-farrons-easter-message-2-53926.html