V.A.T, in school fees

Many state school pupils qualify for free school meals anyway. What's the point in providing them for parents who can afford to pay?

{their children,that is!)

I am thinking of GP's in my town, some send their children to state schools some to private schools , those who send their chikdren to the private school will pay for dinners for their colleagues children in state schools.

I'm not sure what you mean Anniebach ?

Do you mean via their taxes? (I'm easily confused)

I thinking would take more than just making the schools charge vat as lots of them will have charitable status and therefore different rules regarding vat.

Some of my dgc take packed lunches so therefore would not benefit. And, any extra money available for schools would make a bigger difference elsewhere in education.

Typical woolly thinking.

I would like to see existing schools being given the money that has been set aside for "free" schools (many of which have been disasters). I don't think sticking vat onto school fees will make a massive difference and those who can afford to pay the fees will no doubt afford the vat too. The problem I have is where that vat will go? Will it go improving existing schools for all children?

There is significant evidence that providing meals increases children's achievements so I am all for it. I'd remove the charitable status as well unless there was real proof that the school was actively providing facilities for the wider community.
If a GP chooses to send a child to a private school why should that be any different to a builder or a business man doing so?

I too am confused Gilly, all he has said is he wants to charge vat on school fees and this money will psy for all free primary state s hoow dinners in England . I take this to mean if you send your child to a private school you will pay vat and thus will pay for free meals for state school primary pupils regardless of their parents income

Why do they think it's down to any tax payers to feed other peoples children? Some can get breakfast and lunch at school, what's next - tea before they go home?
People have children so they should feed them.

A GP should pay for free dinners for colleagues chikdren?

I'm not sure trisher at my DGC's primary they have a set routine for lunchtimes. The reception and yr 1 go first followed by Yrs 2,3 then 4 and 5 and finally yr 6.

My 3 DGC are spread out. Yrs 2, 4 and 6.

Youngest says school dinners are good. Middle one says they are okay (but there's sometimes nothing left she likes) Eldest says they are disgusting and there is often nothing left except dried up sandwiches and rotten fruit. I have seen this with my own eyes.

The HT says that its very hard to estimate how many hot dinners she needs as the uptake changes daily. I don't agree and think it is truly disgusting that someone paying (and lets face it they aren't cheap) or even not paying,for a meal should be given a stale sandwich and a scabby apple which will in no way "increase a child's achievement" Subsequently my eldest DGD takes a very nice packed lunch everyday. I do feel sorry for those on free meals who will not be in the position to provide one from home.

I agree that anyone sending their child to a private school (be they GP or hairdresser) should be exactly the same. I also agree that unless the private school can prove that it offers some of its facilities as a "charity" to the wider community, then thy should not enjoy charitable status.

Yes, that how I took it too Anniebach but I am a simple soul and prefer things to be spelled out. Otherwise you never know do you?

We do not live in a fair society jusnoneed I think its perfectly reasonable to expect the "haves" to help the "have not's" and for the record breakfast clubs are NOT free !

A builder should pay for free meals for a GPs children? A business man should pay for free dinners for a builder's children? Where's the difference it's an irrelevance.
Free meals for all primary children because a) it isn't economic to only provide meals for children of families on benefits, b) it does substantially increase performance.
Nick Clegg first highlighted this
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-shows-13-million-more-infants-eating-free-school-meals

I don't understand the argument that builders pay vat and charge vat.

so parents who pay school fees should pay vat , the schools who provide the service will not be charged vat but the parents and the money will pay for meals so parents of state school children will not have to pay for their children's dinner

gillybob Free school meals would rectify the numbers problem and ensure there is a proper meal for everyone. Some of the cost would be providing proper school kitchens

VAT is a tax charged on goods and services that are sold why should education be exempt?
Builders and business men can send their children to private schools as well as GPs and would pay the VAT the same, so they would be subsidising any children at state schools be they GP's, builder's or business man's

Yes trisher you are right. If all meals were free then probably all (well most) children would take them up and therefore the school would know exactly how many decent meals should be provided.

Bring back the proper school kitchens with proper cooks!

I don't understand the argument that builders pay vat and charge vat Well some do, but that's a whole different argument.

Sorry Anniebach (I'm having a particularly thick day today) are you saying that the VAT from school fees would offset the cost of free school meals for all primary children? If yes, then I'm all for that !

Someone correct me please but aren't all primary children given free school meals in R class and yrs 1 yrs 2.
I'm not 100% about yr 2

It is all "infant" children nina so therefore Reception, Years 1 and 2.

It's Infants schools non so up to age 7. Primary schools would take it up to age 11, at considerable cost of course, funded by VAT on private school fees, seems perfectly acceptable to me.

It does to me too trisher

A mother was interviewed this morning, she and her husband both work, they choose not to have holidays or eat out, they struggle to pay the fees for their children's private schooling , if vat is added to their fees she doubts her children will be able to stay at their school.

I think trisher is offering the most rational argument so far but I feel slightly irritated about the way the LP has put this forward. If you want to tax independent schools then put forward your argument and do so; if you want to provide free school meals then put forward your argument and do so. There is a bit of a nasty taste with how this has been presented although that doesn't make it wrong (or right).

I do see that these days the LP has to 'show all their workings in the margin' because the right wing propaganda has persuaded some that they are not competent but in truth recent (and historical) Tory policy seems to have been far more economically illiterate.

Mmm. As I am in favour of getting rid of much of the child allowance system and replacing it with the possibility of 24/7 care this is probably a step in the right direction.

I don't agree with the simplistic argument that if you have children the government shouldn't support you. Countries need their population to go on having children or you get to the end of humans - which is silly. If countries need children they should offer some support.

I couldn't afford private education for my children either, no doubt many can't. If you can't afford it you can't have it. That's capitalism for you.