Should parents take their children on holiday in term time?

Exactly daphnedill, it's the same in our family. The graduate in her 30's who earns the least amongst her friendship/family group is a teacher. She leaves home at 7am for a 30 minute drive, is sometimes home by 5 but once a week it's 7. She works in the evening and most of Sunday. A doodle isn't it.

I was trying to suggest that the out of hours work should be done in the week and yes, I had intended the Bank Holidays to be additional to the six weeks.

Perhaps teachers don't want to be helped!

Where would you fit in the extra hours during the week?

Daphne I did explain that in my original post. I don't think it was that hard to understand.

Well, I'm very sorry,but I can't get my head round how it would work in practice.

Your points one by one, gg2

*1. Holiday time both for students and staff to be reduced to six weeks. There should be no idea that teachers are expected to work in schools/colleges during this time.
2. There would be the equivalent of industry shut-downs for: two weeks at Christmas, one week at Easter, two weeks in the Summer.
3. One week could be taken at any time other than those exempted by the head teacher - these being different for different years where necessary.*

That would mean that every family with a schoolchild would want to take their summer holiday at the same time during those two weeks. As Gilly replied, the pressure on travel and accommodation would be enormous, like the traffic jams heading for the seaside on a sunny bank holiday and hotel prices (if you could find a room) would rise astronomically, so even more families would be trying to go during term time.

How convenient were industry shutdowns anyway?

*The day should be the equivalent to a working day with children arriving and taking part in non-academic activity. This would not include the academic staff who would have this time for preparation/marking.

The middle of the day would be teaching time. In secondary schools the subject/stage of learning could be introduced in lectures to the whole year and then smaller sets used to enable all levels of learning.

The last part of the day would not be academic and not include academic teachers in supervision or teaching but would be additional time for preparation/marking/training.*

There are already breakfast clubs, after-school clubs, and various initiatives to cope with children whose parents are work hours don't coincide with school ones. They all need one important element - adult supervision. Who will supervise? Teachers? Not if they are using the time for preparation and filling in endless forms. That means extra staff. Staff means training and money, and keeping a whiole school-full of (possibly unwilling) pupils occupied in non-academic activities takes a lot of space and equipment.

I wish my DGC's school had a breakfast club or an "initiative" to cope with children who's parents are working Elegran.

Yes I can appreciate what you are saying penstemmon I tend to go to most of the meetings,parents evenings, concerts etc. as DS and DDiL almost always working or on the wrong shift.

Elegran, it was just a starting point. Because of the, now two, floating weeks (to accommodate for the Bank Holidays), of course everyone would not need to take their holidays in the two weeks shut down.

I did specifically say the teachers would not supervise the non-academic classes. I did not say they should fill in endless forms - that is your view.

I don't care any more. Teachers can just carry on as they are. I was trying to start a conversation to help with the issues they have - it's certainly not worth trying with the ex teachers on here is it?

It's certainly easy to criticise any suggestion but I don't see anyone else even trying and things will have to change over time - they always do.

Sorry to be stupid, gillybob, but is there nobody at home with these children at breakfast time? I don't mean to pick on you, it's just the most recent post about children's breakfast making me wonder what happens in the morning in others' homes.

By non-academic I meant sport and the classes with an ever growing list of initials and anything outside the core curriculum. They will need specialists and possibly specialist teachers but they do not need to be teachers who need the time to do the preparation and marking of that core. The one thing I am sure of is we cannot continue to keep cutting the money going to schools and expect a good, all round education.

Anyway, it seems you are happy with your current lot - which is great. I am sure the teachers that come after you will thank you for that.

Apologies Ggm2 I forgot teachers have no holidays, work 25 hours a day, 8 days a week for no wages. Thank you for reminding me.

Our school day was longer years ago; we had to be in school at 8.35 for assembly at 8.45, lessons started at 9.00 and we finished at 16.00 with 2 short and 1 longer break. A local school starts at 8.35, lessons begin at 8.45 and they finish at 14.50 with 1 short and 1 longer break.
Another local school seems to take registration after the first period gillybob so they don't know if a child is late.

Lots of mums go to work Norah as well as dads these days! Or many are single parent families.
My DGD go to breakfast club because their Mummy has to get to the school where she works in good time for other people's children.

You have to be good a sarcasm to make it work gillybob.

Schools have holidays which does not mean the teachers have all of them. They do not work 25 hours a day - I think you learn about time in Reception class - you obviously missed that bit. I do appreciate that you have to be able to cognisant to understand that teachers may be working when you can't see them and I can't help if you can't imagine that. This may just help - or not

Of course there is someone at home with the children at breakfast time Norah (I didn't think for one minute you were picking on me ) and you are NOT STUPID

There are 3 of us doing the school runs depending on my DDiL' s work pattern The children stay at mine alternative Sunday's and every Monday night which is a lot easier but we all get a bit confused and it's like running a military operation sometimes.

I have never claimed to be "good at sarcasm* gg2 . It is after all the lowest form of wit.

Actually no, time is not covered until year 1 (basic o'clock) which quite surprised me and more comprehensively in year 2. My DGS (year 2 ) is doing it now, although he is already very good at it. Home taught. Apparently (according to his teacher) many children do not have standard clocks at home.

Thanks for the reply Gracesgran. I'm more familiar with secondary schools and the bof hours for "non-academic" lessons is now virtually nil.

gillybob I still don't ubderstand why the local authority isn't providing transport.

Me neither daphnedill it is quite clear that they should, given the distance the children have to travel to school. I have pointed this out to the LEA (transport team) who insist it is only children with special needs which is not the case. I have downloaded (and provided copies) of guidelines from HM. Gov too.

Apparently the eldest (aged 11) could fly to school across half a dozen farmers fields and a fast flowing stream.

There is a pop up keep appearing on my screen for teachers absence insurance. Weird cookies.

But should they be daphne? We seem to be accepting far too much of 'money not available' message.

Eventually it teaching the 'clock' will be more of a historical lesson gillybob - like learning about sundials. Many people do not wear a watch these days unless it is as an item of jewellery.

Jalima1108 I admitted that I didn't understand. I do know people work.

I merely thought everybody (mums, dads, children) ate breakfast before they left for school. I assumed, wrongly it seems, that someone made breakfast, then the children went on to school (like gillybob said happens at her home some mornings, when the GC are with her).

gillybob I know this is off-topic, but:

If the school is the nearest with places
AND
Is more than three miles away,

the local authority is breaking the law.

You really must contact the Local Government Ombudsman urgently.

This isn't fair on your grandchildren, who have an unnecessarily stressful journey and are being marked as late/absent. This will stay on their school records.

Gg It might work in a very small primary school, but the logistics in a secondary would be a nightmare. The cost of double staffing would be astronomical. Schools are already facing cuts which mean some subjects with small option groups can't be run.

The idea of lectures the going into groups wouldn't work either. Firstly, there would have to be five spaces in the school able to accommodate 200-300 pupils at a time and then there would be the problem of movement round the school every half an hour or so. Most misbehaviour happens during these movement times and most schools try to minimise them.

Thirdly, the pedagogy itself wouldn't work. Teenagers learn least effectively when just listening. Even if there is only one lecturer, there would have to be minimum adult supervision. Each lesson should follow on from the last. That can't happen if the whole year group is brought back to the same place at the beginning of every session.

The standard school timetable lasts 25 hours a week. Some academies have a longer school day, because it's already difficult enough to fit in all academic subjects. Non-academic subjects in a secondary school are a recipe for disruption, because pupils don't think they matter, which is why they've been cut.

Sorry to put a dampener on your ideas.