North Korea

Absolutely MawBroon. In fact, my American friends and their adult children are very happily protesting against Trump on a regular basis. I love the way 'liberals' is used as an insult

I Spy with my little eye - Fake News I fear.
"Anti -Trump protesters being paid?"
You are suggesting by the Clinton Foundation?
No chance, more than enough prepared to do it for free. Probably even happy to PAY for the privilege!

Anya, Hope this is forwarded; my reply to you wasn't

Leeway meant Trump has followed other Presidents to allow those with training and experience form battle plans and carry them out; seemingly not with Obama, who micro-managed so much nothing was done.

Heard earlier today, a WH spokesman said the US electronically engineered the NK's missile's miss-fire and, they could keep spending money on more missiles, only to be disabled. Thought the last crack unnecessary.

Today I also found out anti-Trump protestors are paid by 'Liberals.' Wonder if a certain US Foundation is behind it.

I became aware through reading a book about the Japanese fishing boat Daigo Fukuryū Maru (Lucky Dragon) which was contaminated by US tests at Bikini Island.
....went on the second CND march and later ones.

Some of our friends at one point went off to the west of Ireland - upwind! Much of this is far too like what was happening then. Does trump have any idea of consequences?

dj in order for anyone to come to an informed decision about the use of nuclear weapons they need to have complete information about the result to life. I think it is no coincidence that CND became so popular in the 50s and 60s when people became aware of the consequences through the various films and government information like 5 in 1. We suddenly became aware of the insanity of it all.

Fitzy - yes I was aware the NK missile didn't have a nuclear warhead,my post was in reply to dj's post of yesterday at 18.43.

Sunseeker I don't think any of the NK mussiles have nuclear warheads or will have for sometime. NK are not thought to have yet developed a warhead compact enough to be fitted to a missile. But no doubt they will do at some stage.
DJ - very scary. It almost looks like a matter of when not if such a weapon will be used.

"The one dropped on Hiroshima measured 15 kilotons; it destroyed everything within 200 yards and burned everybody within 2km. The warhead carried by a Trident missile delivers a reported 455 kilotons of explosive power. Drop one on Bristol and the fireball is 1km wide; third-degree burns affect everybody from Portishead to Keynesham, and everything in a line from the Bristol Channel to the Wash is contaminated with radiation. In this scenario, 169,000 people die immediately and 180,000 need emergency treatment. Given that there are only 101,000 beds in the entire English NHS, you can begin to imagine the apocalyptic scenes for those who survive. (You can model your own scenario here.)

But a Trident missile carries up to eight of these warheads, and military planners might drop them in a pattern around one target, creating a firestorm along the lines that conventional Allied bombing created in Hamburg and Tokyo during the second world war.

I don’t wish to alarm you, but right now the majority of the world’s nuclear warheads are in the hands of men for whom the idea of using them is becoming thinkable."

nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=455&lat=51.454513&lng=-2.58791&airburst=0&hob_ft=0&casualties=1&fallout=1&ff=50&fallout_angle=47&fatalities=168942&injuries=187352&psi_1=609063&zm=9

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/17/nuclear-war-has-become-thinkable-again-we-need-a-reminder-of-what-it-means

Why do you think that Anya? I would think the US is quite capable of very sophisticated cyber warfare

Quite a few of North Korea's tests go wrong. I don't believe the USA has the capacity to scupper a launch through cyber interference, but it's great propaganda.

I'm not a scientist but I believe that a nuclear warhead needs a detonator to set off a chain reaction. A "normal" explosion would however spread the radio active material around.

Not sure who that was aimed at DJ but I certainly wouldn't have been happy! I'm not really following what your view is here as to what to do about NK? Maybe it's just leave them be, which I can understand. However that will inevitably lead to them developing intercontinentalnuclear ballistic missile capability. Maybe your view is that's not good but they will probably never use them?

If it had been a nuclear warhead that blew up, you'd all have been happy, would you? After all, it was just North Korea, not the UK or USA.

US won't say whether it was them. It could have simply been a failure.

If the US could scupper any tests ( ciber scupper?)there would be no problem or need to send any of the fleet there.
Maybe it just failed, as they sometimes do.
Maybe the test didn't go ahead and saying that it did and it failed, would save face.

I've heard that the missile may have failed as a result of a US cyber attack.
DJ we all want an end to all nuclear weapons. But I have not heard any practical method for achieving this from CND or anyone else. Have I missed something?

Quite logically, Pres. Trump decided to let his experienced armed services do their job. He doesn't
micro-manage the way Obama did apparently.

Relieved to hear the missile failed after four seconds.
Wonder if the west scuppered the missile's electronics or KJU . . .

dj the difference in why a meglomaniac is running a country is that in NK case he is there because his father and grandfather were before him and the only way he can be removed is if he dies. In the case of Trump (although I agree he is worrying I don't think he is a meglomaniac) he can at least be voted out of office or impeached.

Abonet having read these opinions on GN many times I have learned that to preserve my own sanity not to read any of durhamjen's ( or anyone with the same views)posts on our country or any country being armed.Or rather, not being armed.These sort of opinions are naive in the extreme and idealist in the extreme and will never admit reality to filter in.Therefore not worth reading or commenting on.

Laws don't alter ingrained attitudes. Wars don't force anyone into peaceful co-existence.

I don't believe that anyone is "relaxed" about Trump and Kim Jong (or about the wider attitudes in both countries which have produced both heads of state)

There is not a simple one-dimensional solution, though. The root is in the attitudes, not just in precisely what weapons are on hand to express those attitudes as actions. Unless those attitudes are tackled, the weapons will just be quietly stockpiled again, as "defence", whatever international agreements are made to ban them, and however rigorous the attempts to enforce the ban.

Elegran, I cant. But that doesnt stop my and others' points.

Which is exactly what is happening in NK!! As for disarmament, how on earth would you ever be certain that every country in the world had fully complied? Take their word for it? believe unquestionably weapons inspectors? How could you ever guard against scientists starting the programmes up again, after all its all been invented and there's nothing anyone now or in the future can do about that.
My stepfather was a POW of the Japanese for over 3 years, Changi, Burma railroad and all that. It's a pity the Japanese didn't capitulate instead of insisting on fighting to the last man and threatening to murder all their POW's.