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Not an election please

(1001 Posts)
Anniebach Tue 18-Apr-17 10:05:00

May is to make an important announcement at 11.15

Granny23 Wed 19-Apr-17 11:57:54

This piece raises the question that I can't understand:

^The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is a Tory law, enacted in 2011 by David Cameron’s government with the sole and express purpose of preventing governments from doing exactly what Theresa May intends to do in the Commons later today – cynically using temporary polling advantage to extend their term in office.

It stipulates that a two-thirds majority of MPs must vote for any motion to dissolve Parliament and call an early election, which is 433 votes. That’s over 100 more than the Tories can currently command if every one of their MPs obeys the party whip.

In other words, it cannot be achieved – by design – without the support of the main party of opposition, which in this case is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn currently languishes around 20 points behind in the polls and most projections predict a Tory majority of over 100 seats, compared to the current one of 17.

So why on Earth would the Labour leader go along with it?

An opposition voting against an election seems instinctively foolish, of course. At the most basic ideological level the opposition should always want a chance to unseat the government. But it should also not wish to make its own position worse and give that government an extra two years in power unnecessarily.

Corbyn currently has three years to turn public opinion round – three years in which the Tories are likely to find themselves in a godawful swamp of Brexit negotiations and all manner of other difficulties. If he loses an election now, Labour would then be a minimum of FIVE years away from power. It would not be difficult, therefore, to sell resistance to the election as both a pragmatic and a principled stance.

(General pundit opinion appears to be that refusing to dissolve Parliament would meet with great mockery from the right-wing press. Exactly how would that be different from every other day?)

There is no national emergency requiring the Tories to take this action. No major policy has been blocked. They have a perfectly serviceable working majority. Public opinion is not clamouring for another election.

The SNP, we gather, plan to abstain. So it’s entirely up to Labour whether the vote passes or not. Corbyn could absolutely legitimately stand up and say “No, you are the government the people elected in 2015 to rule for exactly five years – accept the will of the electorate, work with what you’ve got and get on with the day job.”

Should Labour refuse to support today’s motion, the Tories would still have a second avenue available – they could call for a vote of no confidence in themselves, which would put them in the humiliating position of having to stand up in the Commons and argue that they were too terrible a government to be allowed to continue, and that the law they themselves passed just six years ago was incompetent and reckless.

Even on the assumption that the Tories would eventually win that vote (which requires 50%+1 rather than a two-thirds majority) and got their election, Labour would have succeeded in embarrassing them and making them look shambolic and farcical, which at the very least has to count as a tactical victory.

At best, meanwhile, delaying the process could actually cause the Tories to lose their majority altogether as a result of the ongoing police inquiry into possible 2015 electoral fraud by dozens of their MPs, which is due to deliver a verdict very soon.

Oppositions – whose sworn duty to the sovereign and the nation is to make life as difficult for the government as possible – are rarely presented with such an open goal as this. If Labour can’t even take the chance to exert pressure on a government that’s clearly uncomfortable in its current position, they really are literally useless.

If they meekly go along with the Tories’s cynical ploy – the sole purpose of which is to destroy them – they will fully deserve to be propelled through the trapdoor to eternity.^

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:57:15

Shut up, Annie.

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:56:38

Shocking but not surprising, varian.
All the radio I have been listening to today is phone ins about the last big u-turn anyone made!

The People's Assembly got in on the act quickly.

www.thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/shop

Anniebach Wed 19-Apr-17 11:55:59

Jen, I accept it is with Trisher but your excuses for Corbyn over the months need to be printed in private eye, how hard he worked in the Brexit campaign, he refused to debates because he didn't approve of Cammeron, now May doesn't want to crbstes you question if she is scared. Corbyn refused to debstes because he wanted out of the EU, you cannot even admit this is true regardless of the fsct he has always wanted out.

varian Wed 19-Apr-17 11:53:14

I was shocked to hear Tory MP Suella Fernandez, attempting to justify TM's turnaround on the GE, saying that the Liberal Democrats, Labour and SNP had been criticising TM and her brexit policy and we need an election so that "these voices can be silenced"

Outrageous!!!

grammargran Wed 19-Apr-17 11:51:39

Thanks Trisher - I'm interested in policies too, but what I really like to do in these rather dismal days is try to find some humour around. I loved the item from Newsthump that I found on Facebook this morning: Nicola Sturgeon is planning a new Hadrian's wall - and the English will pay for it. Apart from that, what I have learned from the last 12 months is to expect the unexpected. Has Mrs May got her fingers crossed behind her back? In a letter to the Times today, someone wrote that he'd voted Tory his entire life but this time would be holding his nose and voting Lib Dem in the hope of a soft Brexit. How many more will be like that writer? Has she factored in that possibility?

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:50:14

24housing.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=ddd12a1ee3330a83986ae5fc5&id=034604c3e0&e=23ddde61eb

Housing is as important an issue as Brexit for many people.

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:44:04

It's not loyalty to Corbyn, Annie, it's loyalty to a party's policies.
Such a shame you cannot see that.

daphnedill Wed 19-Apr-17 11:43:21

grammargran I suspect it's because the GN editor is responsible for picking the threads she thinks are interesting and sends the emails. Personally, I never take any noptice of the emails and go directly the "Active" tab.

daphnedill Wed 19-Apr-17 11:41:35

Well, ab should welcome it, because her brother will make more money. wink

daphnedill Wed 19-Apr-17 11:40:37

ab As you are involved in the construction industry, I'm sure you know what the barriers to building are. What do you suggest.

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:40:05

24housing.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=ddd12a1ee3330a83986ae5fc5&id=1f350554f2&e=23ddde61eb

Labour ahead of Tories on housing policies. Only by a bit, but it's a start.
You should welcome it, Annie, but you will not.

daphnedill Wed 19-Apr-17 11:39:01

dj The Daily Mirror reckons it's 29, but doesn't make it clear whether the MPs or their agents are being held responsible. The CPS only has a few weeks to bring charges.

Grample I agree with you that a new Conservative government will probably abolish the triple lock and raise National Insurance contributions, but I'm interested in what you think they'd do to sort out care for the elderly.

Anniebach Wed 19-Apr-17 11:38:08

Trisher, what use are policies if they remain only policies but no action

Anniebach Wed 19-Apr-17 11:36:57

Yes I know you do Jen, your loyalty to Corbyn shows that. For me no point in a leader who can only talk the talk but never be able to act. Corbyn could walk up and down all day every day with a banner - homes for the homeless - unless he is PM not a thing he can do except ask questions every week for the next five years . You are content with this, I am not, I want homes for the homeless not constant links to read about the homeless

trisher Wed 19-Apr-17 11:35:42

No idea why grammargran but please don't feel left out you are entirely free to post comments about the wonderful world of Theresa May, Brexit or any of the other subjects that are debatable in this election, unfortunately some will just reply with personal criticism of a leader they dislike, but most of us are interested in policies. grin

daphnedill Wed 19-Apr-17 11:32:32

There are 35 pro-Remain Conservative MPs, who represent pro-Remain constituencies. I wonder what they'll do and say to their constituents. In some of the constituencies, only a small swing is needed for a LibDem gain.

Grampie Wed 19-Apr-17 11:32:01

She's constrained by Cameron's 2015 Manifesto.

This gives our unelected House of Lords permission to make mischief.

As a Leave voter she's always wanted a clear run at negotiating a softer Brexit than masquerading as a rabid Brexiteer to placate her anti-EU colleagues.

She'll may also forge her own charter to remove the triple lock on pensions, raise national insurance contributions and sort out the mess regarding our funding of our elder care.

grammargran Wed 19-Apr-17 11:22:16

How come this Gransnet email with this forum topic only appeared in my in box at 9.30 am this morning yet had posts from yesterday morning in it. Why am I lagging so behind? I'm feeling a bit left out of the game here!

Anniebach Wed 19-Apr-17 11:14:52

And 2,700 left recently , so 200 down

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:14:48

Is that what you do, Annie?
I vote for whichever party espouses the policies I believe in.

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:13:57

Niggly, CPS has details of about 20 Tory MPs who lied about election spending.
Just because you are a Tory and don't care will not make it go away.

durhamjen Wed 19-Apr-17 11:12:07

Another 2500 members for the Labour party in less than a day.

nigglynellie Wed 19-Apr-17 11:04:57

In the eyes of the majority of voters, all politicians and political parties bend the rules, paper over the cracks, tell the tale and generally mislead the public, even J.C, (remember that train?!!), and quite honestly I don't think they're that concerned about election spending! To coin a phrase, 'They're all at it!) [shrug]

Anniebach Wed 19-Apr-17 11:02:42

We do get to choose, we vote for which ever leader we want as PM,

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