Voting quandry

I think the most important issue is the NHS. As we all get older I get more and more worried about the NHS. There is all the stealth privatisation like in the Bath area of Somerset where Virgin Health Care now owns it and can do what it likes. So I think a vote for the Tories this time will be the end of the NHS.

There are Leaders and there are Leaders. Hitler was a Leader. So was Mussolini. I have known Jeremy Corbyn for over thirty years. I would trust him with my life and no one, no one, can buy him.

At this stage I would suggest if you feel you have to vote - vote Green - stupid because it's not going anywhere but if you think it sensible to help Theresa May - vote Tory. You must understand we are leaving Europe - please make it easy for her to get a decent deal.

I haven't read all the comments, but to help you then maybe you could try this questionnaire to see where your side.
uk.isidewith.com/en/political-quiz

I have always voted Conservative, but this time I'm with Labour. I like Corbyn, I think he's working hard, he's passionate, but most importantly I like his policies.
I cannot stand may, I hate what the cons are doing to the UK, and I don't believe we should make the election about Brexit, though I know probably 80% of it is. We are leaving already, the cons made that happen and although I voted to remain I think it would divide the UK even more to turn it around. But I don't want a hard Brexit like the tories are intending.

The amount of spin and bile about Corbyn is quite honestly disgusting, and I think we should ALL be voting on policies NOT personalities.

Have you seen may rallying her troops? She has nothing on Corbyn, no wonder she doesn't want to be televised and be caught on the hop, all she can manage is scripted speeches, she is so fake and unfortunately I see her as a fall guy for Brexit Britain.
I don't envy any party having to clear up this mess the tories got us into.

moxeyns

If I can I am hoping to outline all the political parties manifestos etc so can I use some of that stuff please on say a Lib Dem thread?

I want to do the same for a Labour thread and a Tory thread. Although if anyone considers that I will be too biased they are welcome to do it themselves if they feel inclined.

Other political parties are welcome to take part!

annie I think what dot is saying that the manifesto will be decided by the LP - over the next few weeks. We know that Trident will be supported by the LP we also know that Corbyn does not agree with Trident. But he isn't alone. There are millions who would agree with his judgement in this including many Tories.

For the rest of the manifesto Corbyn will as leader have to support it. He will have to conform.

I think that is all she is saying.

But forget Corbyn - he isn't important - what is important will be the content of the manifesto and whether you can live with that. Many Labour MPs will be hoping for yours and other members support in their fight to rid us of this troublesome government.

I joined the Lib Dems after the Brexit vote - and have been totally amazed at how inclusive they (we) are. I've had a tiny input into the Lib Dem manifesto, as has every other member of the party who wanted to; we were asked to put forward options, then rank them in order of importance/desirability, in a very interesting way - is policy A more or less desirable than Policy B? What about if it were combined with Policy C? type thing. It required some real head-scratching on some of them! But as a result, I feel that the Lib Dem manifesto is not only as good as it can be, with solid buy-in from everyone, but that it represents the broadest possible input. A most interesting process, and a solid result.
www.libdems.org.uk/issues

White wave. Dot said Corbyn conforms , I questioned this, read her post

I am a 'remainer' and personally, I think May has a really difficult job. Poisoned chalice being the PM at the moment, but she's sort of doing her best to guide us through it all. At the end of the day, who do you think is going to do the best job of getting us through Brexit? That is one of the most important issues as far as I am concerned. We all need to be looking to the future of this country and voting responsibly.......good luck in your decision making!

Lilyflower I find it hard to understand how anyone who is conservative with a small "c" could ever want brexit, let alone hard brexit.

Brexit is a hugely destructive policy - wreaking havoc with our economy, damaging our relationships with the rest of Europe, an appallingly reckless leap into the unknown. It conserves nothing.

When I decide how to vote I know I will not agree 100% for any party and even i am 49/51 I vote with the majority of my beliefs. The personalities of the politicians do not influence me, just what the party stands for and how much I agree with the underlying philosophy.
This was advice I was given when I was voting for the first time and it has stood me in good stead all my life. Hope this helps.

annie ?sorry Not sure what you mean

Corbyn conforms ?

May has chosen well with her mantra Britain needs a strong and stable government as we move to Brexit, and many people are willing to grasp this and run with it as a reason to vote Tory even if they have never voted Tory in the past.

But let's explore exactly what it means.

Does it mean that May has been weak and unstable since she took power?

Does it mean that without an increased majority May will not be able to negotiate a good Brexit?

Does it mean that May is asking for a blank cheque

Does it mean that given a large majority May will feel empowered to ignore the many voices calling for moderation and restraint in the Brexit negotiations?

Does it mean that she will indeed be stronger and more stable?

I think these questions are worth exploring, because you are going to hear a lot of this mantra in the next few weeks

I always vote UKIP but our local branch has decided it is not worth the expense of standing a candidate against a LEAVE supporting, 20,000 majority Tory MP so I will go into the polling booth and 'spoil' my ballot sheet with a comment about not really trusting May with Brexit but having no alternative. That will be my vote. I've been involved with scrutinizing votes at the count and comments are read by the candidates although usually just rude words are written on them! Or you can write simply, 'NONE OF THE ABOVE'

I know that many people are torn about how to vote but from my point of view as an almost 62 year old being told I have to work until I am 66 despite my National Insurance contributions already being more than enough to meet requirements (and not giving me any more money) I cannot vote for the Conservative party who have chosen to inflict a great deal of misery on women in my age group when they could have done something else instead. Jeremy Corbyn says what he thinks - as Leader he has to conform to the majority wishes of his party anyway, he cannot over rule any vote on his own. I think he gives his personal views rather than just trot out the party line - and he takes all the flack for doing so. He isn't the only person who thinks Trident should be scrapped, the NHS should run on a not for profit basis and not be hived off to already wealthy investors to benefit and that the sick and disabled should not be treated so poorly. Whatever you do please use your vote - it is just less than a century since ordinary women were 'allowed' to vote at all.

annie how on earth do you arrive at the judgement that Corbyn-momentum is my choice??!!!

I try studiously to avoid making any argument about the leader -except the Tories, but they are fair game I try to concentrate on the argumentsand manifestos.

However I largely spend my energies in attacking the Tories - those who are responsible for

The NHS crises
The schools crises
The growth of poverty
Division in society
Growing inequality
The Brexit crises
The enormous deficit
Growing crime rate
Prison crises
The state of our roads
The threat to our environment
The appalling air quality that means 40000 extra deaths a year!!!!!
Inequality in opportunity
The raid on our democracy
The shutting down of debate

And on and on

They are such an easy target. If you really be,I eve in your heart that the Tories are bad for this country you can pick any one of those targets and many more and argue the case for a different government. I ask you to join all of us fighting the Tories from whatever colour.
Concentrating on Corbyn is playing right into the Tory hands and is music to many people's ears.

Good post dbB.

hiw many London MP's claim for a second home Coco?

I like the idea of the 'man of principle' but when it comes to it Corbyn seems to have a bit of a messiah complex, he knows he is unpopular and despite having what he believes are good policies, (I believe some of them are) he will not step aside and let a more popular candidate get Labour into power.

I think austerity is a greedy red herring.

Lib Dems.........

Greens disappointing.

No idea what to do myself.

We urgently need new parties and new thinking, these old parties are consumed with their own history.

Whoever gets in anywhere in the western word, it seems to be such a close call now that no one wants to accept the results.

I am going to have to hold my nose in the ballot whatever I decide.

I wonder if you have really looked at the man and his principles? MSM have consistently reported negative stories about him, some of which are not true. The BBC admitted to a report by Laura Kuenssberg, where she had edited in an answer to a question she did not ask! Did you know that Corbyn's Parliamentary expenses were nine pounds? He does not claim for a second home, as the majority of MPs do, and he travels by public transport most of the time, unlike others who spend taxpayers' money on chauffered limos. Our local MP tried to charge expenses of £185.00 for lightbulbs for the flat that he rents for £1800 odd per month. Who would you rather have working for you?

Look at Labour policies and consider that Corbyn's aim is to lessen the effects of Brexit for working people. Look at what the Tories have done to the NHS. Just because his style of leadership is different it doesn't mean that it is wrong.

Corbyn has been associated with terrorist groups and has supported Hamas and the IRA so I don't think anyone need have any worries about not voting for him.

I agree that the question of 'what to vote' is difficult. From another side of the fence I would naturally vote for the party in power as, on the whole, I believe in small 'c' conservative principles though I am not 'tribal' and do not think that the idea of 'my party right or wrong' is remotely moral.

Theresa May supported Remain which might make her a difficult choice for me but she has thrown herself into the Brexit camp with a will. She has supported raising taxes and hammering pensioners, policies with which I have serious issues. I think that her championing the 'JAM's is fine but that she's going the wrong way about doing it as lower taxation will help them more than raising VAT on goods they need to buy.

So, everyone has doubts and no one can unequivocably support one party on every point.

I am swallowing my doubts (and self interest) as I think that the country needs a strong and stable basis on which to negotiate Brexit and will vote for May even though she will punish me for my support. Additionally, my M.P. was a wholehearted Remainer though his constituency wasn't. It sticks in my craw, somewhat, but as is said in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' one cannot always have one's 'ruthers'.

Such dilemmas reflect the nature of the world in which we live.

Labour is the party of my choice Whitewave, Corbyn-Momentum is not , I accept it is yours

I think annie that you are beginning to allow your hatred of Corbyn to cloud your judgement. Take yourself back a couple of years and you were espousing the very same policies that you are now denigrating.

Of course you may have changed your mind about Labour policy, and that is fine. But at least be brave enough to admit that you no longer find Labour o be your party of choice.

Dictatorship, Anniebach? No just the opposite. It is the party which sets policy through the COnference. Not the PLP. And not the leader. The party has agreed to maintain Trident. Jeremy can say he regrets this, but that is what policy is. ( I think it is a great waste of money too, defence has moved on a lot since the cold war days).
But then, if you want tory policies. vote tory.