Should I vote Conservative

How do you suppose the Welfare Bill, The NHS, Education will be paid for without growth, industry , business acumen.

What interests me is the way people seem to regard public services as contributing nothing to the economy.

Who benefits financially from building hospitals, schools etc?
Who benefits from supplying said hospitals and schools with all the physical resources they need?
Where do the people who are employed in public services spend their money?

I've worked in schools and hospitals and all the buildings, infrastructure and resources were supplied by private companies, large and small, who were making a profit (taxable) from the public money being spent on these 'public goods'.

The State gets a return on its money from tax; business benefits not only from selling their products to public services but also from a healthy, educated workforce. Public services are not a big black hole into which money is poured, never to be seen again.

I agree that in a mixed economy there has to be a balance between State and private enterprise but I think it's more complex than it is often presented.

Another reason not to vote Tory.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/04/30/department-for-transport-is-intimidating-applicants-for-the-blue-badge/

Another reason not to vote Tory. They are still telling lies.

skwawkbox.org/2017/04/30/did-mays-scottish-stunt-breach-contract-force-a-charity-to-breach-its-articles-ge17/

I wonder where this will go on the election expenses.

Chewy there are lovely posters who I have met ( from this forum) who are Labour supporters ( Corbyn may be a step too far ,mind ) and they never come onto these threads at all.There is a reason for that, as you can guess.
However, have to say am glad you are not backing Labour this time.

......as can we all!

POGS perhaps you could read the next part of my statement about start up businesses and progress through training etc. The issue of corporation tax is something else and does indeed impact on 'big business' which actually is not the basis of growth in the UK. Small businesses are.

"There were a record 5.5 million private sector businesses at the start of 2016.
This is an increase of 97,000 since 2015 and 2.0 million more since 2000.
The number of employing businesses increased by 14,000 and the number of sole trader/self-employed businesses by 84,000, with the annual growth for both groups being around +3%.
SMEs and the Economy:
Small businesses accounted for 99.3% of all private sector businesses at the start of 2016 and 99.9% were small or medium-sized (SMEs).
Total employment in SMEs was 15.7 million; 60% of all private sector employment in the UK.
The combined annual turnover of SMEs was £1.8 trillion, 47% of all private sector turnover in the UK."
Growth therefore has been fairly consistent in the small business area since 2000 so long before this conservative government took over.

Thanks for your comments Chewbacca I am always ready to discuss with anyone who wants to listen (but I can be quite acerbic to those who just post rants!)

Chewbacca I am neither a Labour Party member or supporter and unlikely to every be so the idea that I thought you were spinning a Utopia under the Tories because of anything to do with the Labour Party is just not true. I think there are many who do not see the Tories for what they are or what they have been doing and that saddens me because it means they may vote them in in greater numbers and trust them when they should not be trusted.

"This increased awareness of the impact of broken Tory promises on education will certainly have contributed to the huge swing in voting intention reported by polling companies after just 10 days of campaigning.

It seems people are waking up to this simple fact: if the Tories - as they clearly do - break even firm manifesto promises that deprive our children, then what can they be trusted on in this election?

If you haven't already done so, check the impact of the Tories' broken promise - then get your neighbours, friends and family to do so - and ask them to vote for Labour, the party that can be trusted on education and can get into government to do something about it.

Your children, grandkids, nieces, nephews and their education depend on it."

GDP figures can't fall much lower than 0.3%

Another reason not to vote Tory.

"We' ve seen a huge increase in traffic to our schools cuts site - and it was already high. From October last year to last week, there had been three million views. The NUT is not affiliated to Labour [the union voted against affiliation by the narrowest of margins at its recent conference] but after last week's party political broadcast with Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell talking about education cuts we saw half a million hits last weekend alone and we're really pleased to see education is the number three issue that people consider important for this election.

The Tories big problem is that they broke their manifesto promise to protect school funding. Half of schools in the country are facing cash-terms cuts and the other half are facing real-terms cuts in funding.

The effects of the cuts are manifesting everywhere: class sizes going up, cuts to lessons in art, drama and other subjects, reductions in staff numbers. We want people to be asking their candidates what they will do about it - and asking the Tories why they broke their manifesto promise."

Head of the NUT, Kevin Courtney.

Sorry Trisher I hadn't meant to infer that it was just LP supporters who posted derogatory comments here, I've seen enough to know that those are cross party. What I was trying to say,, but didn't articulate very well, was that it's the sheer negativity of so many posts in support of the Labour party that are so depressing and off putting. I haven't seen any constructive posts, here or elsewhere, that support the LP as a viable voting choice. The vast majority of the posts have referred only to the directory consequences of what will happen if you dont for them. The post earlier today by GGMK2 perfectly illustrated this. I was accused of "painting a utopian picture ", presumably because I'd said that I'd been turned off from voting for the LP, despite the fact that I'd made no references at all to any other party. It appears, from some of the posts on these threads, that any voter who fails to vote for the Labour party has a nihilistic approach to life. And that's simply not the case. Thanks for entering into a conversation with me that did not descend into attacks and accusations Trisher. If there had more posts and opinions like yours, my decision might have been different.

durhamjen

" Pleased you think that it's okay because Italy and France are low, too."

Bloody hell you are becoming better at spinning the truth than Damien McBride/ Mc Poison.

trisher

" Thanks Chewbacca for me the issues are not so much about growth and industry, I do think to a certain extent these things take care of themselves. "

That is an interesting view.

How do you suppose the Welfare Bill, The NHS, Education will be paid for without growth, industry , business acumen .

They most certainly do not take care of themselves if you have a government that does not understand how they function but will raise Corporation tax, talks down big business etc.

The way they take care of themselves is to 'move'.

It isn't just the LP supporters who post derogatory comments Chewbacca I have seen a great deal of negativity and personal remarks from those who disagree with Labour supporters. I think the reasons for the passionate opinions expressed by the LP supporters is because they see this as the final chance to rescue the society we have grown up with, the 'cradle to the grave care' established after WW2. They don't understand how we can be living in a society where working people need to use food banks, more children are living in poverty and infant mortality rates are rising. They see the rich getting richer and the weak and vulnerable suffering and they want it to stop, but when they post about these things they are dismissed as 'lefties' or 'communists'. Can I ask that in dismissing the Labour Party please don't vote for this Conservative government which has a right wing agenda, best expressed by the likes of William Rees Mog (who I actually quite like) but who believes in a low tax economy where public services are cut to the bone and we each survive as best we can. Theresa May is just the acceptable face of an unacceptable party policy.

"When the GDP figures are high , there is silence."

When were they high?

The OBR thought it would be 0.6%, it's half that.
Pleased you think that it's okay because Italy and France are low, too.

durhamjen Sat 29-Apr-17 00:10:48

Your link to taxresearch

"It did not take genius to predict that the UK GDP figures just published would be poor. As I have been blogging over the last few weeks, all the signs were there."

And they are poor: growth has fallen to 0.3% in the quarter whilst the year on year trend falls below expectation. If you take GDP as a sign of virility (and the government, at least, does) then this is a bad sign, especially as there is little or no prospect of things getting better this quarter because of an election."

Out of interest what do you believe is the reason for France having a 0.3% GDP Growth in the 1st quarter of 2017?
www.tradingeconomics.com/france/gdp-growth

What do ' YOU ' believe is the reason for Italy having a 0.2% GDP growth rate.
www.tradingeconomics.com/italy/gdp-growth

They do not have the Tories nor Brexit to blame !

When the GDP figures are high , there is silence.

There is also an interesting fact that France, Italy and the UK are experiencing the rise of anti EU rhetoric, obviously we have Brexit but the French Presidential Election has unsettled the EU and Italy may well show similar anti EU rhetoric over the Italy General Election period . Italy could have had an Election in May 2017 but looks to be holding back until May 2018, probably hoping the EU / UK negotiations frighten the Italian people .

I am not saying Brexit will not prove to be financially a tragedy for the UK but so far all I see is the continuation of 'Project Fear' at the expense of facts and what I am asking is for is a sensible overview of where the UK stands financially.

If the UK GDP figures over the next quarter falls then that is a clearer sign but the first quarter GDP figures, after Xmas, do tend to be lower don't they?

Another list for me not to read you mean dj

Good posts Chewbacca and I agree entirely.

GGMK2 where have I painted a "Utopian " future, in my post? I haven't given one single indication of the future but you've read something totally different into my post! I'm afraid that I cannot assist you with your request for what the Conservative party will do, or any other party either for that matter. I thought I'd made it quite clear that I was still undecided as to whom I would vote for but your post, as a labour party supporter, just once again reinforces my opinion that for LP supporters, any voter who doesn't agree is almost "an enemy of the people " and must be quashed. Any lingering doubts have been allayed, thank you GGMK2.

Chewbacca, the party is struggling I agree, there is great danger of the far left taking control, if they do I will leave the party , I detest communism ,

Interesting post Chewbacca. Firstly I do think that the Labour, Lib Dem and UKIP parties all see optimism but articulate it in a different way and see it based on the premise that the Tories are not in power - that is what makes them so concerned.

Give me a none Tory government and I will sound as positive as you could want and I am sure many of those you feel are painting a dystopian picture would agree. Our fear is not for the future but for a Tory future.

It could equally be said that you are painting a Utopia picture based on ... what? We still have no idea what the Tories intend to do and I would be really interested to know.

Hi Trisher , it's to be expected that we all have different needs or requirements for the future and I 100% respect that yours, and anyone else's, will be different to mine. What I can't be doing with is the total and utter negativity and contempt that Labour Party supporters have for anyone who thinks differentently, on GN anyway. I'm only too well aware of the failings of the Conservative party and now need to research the alternatives.
Annie, possibly you're right that not all LP supporters are the same but I'm afraid that some of the despotic rantings that I've read on here, and elsewhere, have been a complete turn offfor me. I've not seen any positivity as to what the LP will actually do, if elected, only negativity if you dont. That and the fact the the Labour party have been divided for sooo long and haven't got themselves united as a single cohesive party before going into the polls. If they could unite themselves and stop all the inner wrangling and backbiting, I'd have seriously considered them.

Thanks Chewbacca for me the issues are not so much about growth and industry, I do think to a certain extent these things take care of themselves. I don't for example know anyone who has looked at the government of the day and decided not to start a business or not to go for more training or promotion. I do care about health and education and the poorest in our society and I don't think the conservatives do. I just watched T. May on Andrew Marr asking her about nurses using food banks and she wriggled and moved on to discussing Brexit. I also hate the phrase she keeps using "in the National interest"

Chewbacca, I have been a Labour Party member for over fifty years, please don't think all labour supporters are like the bullying few on GN , there has been such a change since Corbyn became leader , not a change for the good sadly . I am so sorry you are yet another voter who has been driven away from being a labour supporter

Only just seen your post Trisher. The future that I see, and hope for Britain, has some optimism for growth in industry, education and the NHS, and I don't feel that what I've read, from JC's statements, or on the GN Labour Party support threads, that any optimismfor the future of Great Britain is seen at all. Virtually every post that I've seen so far, both here and elsewhere, are full of dire forewarnings of financial ruin; poverty and a virtually apocalyptic future if anyone other than the Labour party are elected. It reads like something out of a Stephen King book and, for me personally, I've found that too off putting. I want to vote for a party whose supporters are optimistic for the future; who have a positive, rather than a pessimistic outlook and who can work with others to achieve the best future for Britain. If GN Labour party supporters are a true representation of the LP party, then it isn't the party for me. But, as I said in my earlier op, the comments have been helpful in as much as they have helped to remove one party from my voting consideration.