The Green Party

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/04/12/caroline-lucas-demands-country-by-country-reporting/

guengl-panamapapers.eu/event/guengl-conference-the-panama-papers-one-year-on-fighting-money-laundering-and-tax-dumping/

If it wasn't for people like Caroline Lucas and Richard Murphy, this would not be being discussed now.
The UK can still be a tax haven on leaving the EU.

I can't claim to have a great deal of knowledge about economics, other than to feel sure that our present system is a dangerous one, or to know exactly what sort of economic model Caroline Lucas favours.

However, I believe she has quite nuanced and unpredictable views about the economy and about the EU. This is evidenced in an article she wrote in the Guardian in 2003 www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/sep/16/euro.eu, in which she criticised the introduction of the euro, saying - amongst other things - that:

"It [European monetary union] will contribute to a Europe run to the tune of the free market agenda, a rigid monetarist environment with maximum price stability. A Europe where regulation - to protect the environment, human rights or social provision - is frowned upon as an impediment to free trade....."

I don't know whether she has since changed her mind about that, or whether she has, as Richard Murphy, claims, a poor grasp of economics, but she doesn't seem too complimentary about monetarism in this particular opinion piece.

As for Green policies being "unrealistic", I feel that what is totally irrational, unrealistic and wilfully closed-minded is the conviction that we can continue to exploit and degrade our planet in the name of "growth" without there being a day of reckoning.

Economically they wanted to return to the Mrs Thatcher's much discredited monetarist policy,

Presumably that's why Richard Murphy says they need to learn some economics.

I looked thoroughly at the Green Party in 2015 but found behind the headlines some very strange policies. Economically they wanted to return to the Mrs Thatcher's much discredited monetarist policy, remember Milton Friedman and the policies that led to the rapid rise in unemployment in the 1980s.

I ended up going from possible, if not probably Green, voter to not prepared to touch them with a barge pole Green voter.

I wouldn't want Caroline Lucas as PM, but I would welcome her opinion. I think she appears hardworking, competent, honest and knows her stuff. Richard Murphy (of Tax Justice Network) says her biggest problem is that she needs to learn some economics, but that could be said of most politicians of all parties.

Realistic!

But perhaps not the sort of people that you want to be in charge of a country.
Politicians do not have to be 'nice' just capable and realsitic.

She is an extremely pleasant person as is her co leader. Both the sort of people you could happily spend time with.

I suspect that if we had PR the Greens would receive more votes in elections. ATM I suspect many people think that voting for them is a wasted vote, because they'll never win.

PS.I wish a place could be found for Caroline Lucas in some kind of coalition government. I don't always agree with her, but I think she's one of our few outstanding politicians of any political party.

The problem is with a Citizens' Income that it can't pay enough to be a true living wage.

I worked out how much it would cost, if it were paid at current JSA rate and it was more than the UK's GDP. JSA isn't a living wage, so it would have to be paid at a higher rate, which is why (I think) the Greens gave up on it.

Thank you Eloethan. I agree with your posts entirely.

I had a lot of contact with our local Green Party a few years ago when we were fighting the building of an incinerator (sorry Energy from Waste plant) near to us. I found myself in agreement with much of their ideas, but they were just too niaive, impractical and honest to be able to stand up to the selfishness of big business and those 62 people and their friends. I don't know what the answer is. In an ideal world.....

eleothan yes I think that that is recognised by the Greens and a number of others - largely academics. Many of our young seem to be getting the message though. My nephew lives his life exactly along those lines. As does to a more limited extent my son. I am sure if these issues are not tackled - he'll in a handcart seems highly likely.

it was a rhetorical question as you well know, but you are never one to miss a trick are you?

I like the intentions behind the idea of a Citizens' Income and I believe some countries have already introduced it.

However, I have doubts as to whether it will change things very much in the long run. I believe, as happened when families were increasingly in receipt of two incomes as more and more women went out to work, the extra income would eventually dissipate as prices of goods and services rose to take up the additional income.

It is, in my opinion, the vast gap between the richest and poorest in society that is the issue. Also the fact that the richest 62 people in the world are as wealthy as half of world's population seems to me to demonstrate that the whole economic system needs reviewing in order to meet the needs of the majority rather than the greed of the minority.

Yes, multi-tasking, don't we all do it? You were the one who wondered what she did with her life...

ana Oh! Ok

Then I will tell you what I have really been doing

Apart from all usual housework things - I've watered all pots, prepared dinner and lunch, shopped from Mum and delivered it - she lives 8 miles away, I've changed and made her bed, put away her shopping, ordered her meals for the week (I am away next week ) done her laundry at my home (it is still doing as I post) made her coffee washed up her breakfast stuff and sorted out her lunch. I then came home and have completed lunch. I have in between times posted on here.

This afternoon I will dry and iron Mums laundry, water the entire garden - complete dinner, pack for our holidays and post in between times.

Next week you will be thrilled to know that I will be out and about - does that suit you.? Perhaps next week you may grow a nice gene.

Many people challenge the idea that constant growth is a good thing. An article in the Guardian in April 2015 argues this point. Here is a synopsis:

" Growth does not create jobs
The way the current economic system is designed, it does the opposite. The constant drive to increase productivity, which is what economic growth really is, requires manufacturers to steadily reduce input costs.
Economic growth destroys jobs.........

" Economic growth does not reduce inequality
Because the system is designed to reward those who already have money and assets, the free market economic model takes wealth from the poor and gives it to the rich. This is especially true since 2008 as government and consumer debts in the rich world have risen and average incomes have stagnated or fallen. The gap between the rich and poor is bigger today than in 1914. The gap between rich countries and poor ones is also much greater.........

" Boosting growth is not the way to solve environmental problems
Economic growth is the cause of them. It requires a constant increase in the flow of raw materials extracted from the planet to be turned into goods, services and waste. The more we grow, certainly using current economic thinking, the more resources we need to use and the more pollution we create......

...."Taking a different approach to economic development will be fiercely opposed by all those who benefit from the current system. Yet a radical change in approach is both possible and necessary."

In my view, the most important issue is the degradation of our natural environment - the plastic "mountains" in the ocean, light and air pollution, etc. No-one, not even the better off, will be immune to disease and malnutrition if we poison our oceans and the land. And yet the growth obtained from the manufacture of more and more unnecessary products and services is applauded, with no regard to the valuable natural resources that are being plundered.

for anyone interested, here is the link to the full article: www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/apr/21/jobs-economic-growth-inequality-environment-club-of-rome

Posting on GN of course - while I've been out and about.

Oh ana would you like to tell me what I have been doing this morning then!?

Oh I can give you far more information than I did on this thread minimal is all relative you understand. I meant that I am not up to masters level. So ask away

Having skimmed through the posts on the political threads today already, I think I know what you do with your life, whitewave!

Not at the moment thank you.

No your explanation was not sufficient but as you say you understand it to a minimum level.

Thank you for trying it was kind of you..

pogs then I hope my explanation is sufficient. Is there anything else I can help you with?

whitewave

I was NOT scoffing, I am reading their policies.

daphnedil

"I'm not 100% sure what you mean by your last paragraph POGS. It's easy to "hand out money" without economic growth by devaluing the value of the pound."

Where the hell did that come from?????

Yes daph I think your last paragraph is correct. I was listening to someone in the family explaining it to their Mum the other day.