Should I vote Labour Mark 11

Do any of you actually know what the far left is?

PS. Don't forget to check under your beds! There might be some lurking reds.

The manifesto actually undoes some of the last seven years and takes things back to Blair/Brown. Since when have either of them been accused of being far left?

I give up. Discussion seems to be impossible!

No, it isn't a "far left" manifesto, roses. Once again you assume what most can see. You assume everybody has the same views as you.

If you would care to discuss, I'd be happy to join in - but not with your random, unsubstantiated comments.

I actually did think about the future, took out a mortgage when I was 27 and worked bloody hard all my life. I suppose that's what gets me now.

I'm more fortunate than some, but the big problem is housing. I pay £825 a month and barely earn more than that.

I can't get any benefits, because I still have some equity from my house.

I wouldn't be eligible for Jobseekers' Allowance, because my income is over £73 per week and I won't be eligible for Pension Credit, because my state pension will take me over the £159pw limit.

I'm absolutely stuck, but I get on with things as best I can.

It makes me mad (and sad) when people make assumptions - either about me or the poor in general. It's taken me a few years to get over the anger and bitterness.

The 'certain poster' wasn't me dd and none of my posts have been personal to anybody ( anyone reading my two posts on the last thread and on here can see that for themselves.)
Yet it is demanded that I explain my opinion of the manifesto.So I have just done exactly that without any malice/ insults to anybody.
So, you were having a discussion between yourselves and did not want a dissenting voice about anything else.
It is an exceedingly far left manifesto dd as most can see.

"However, The Independent takes a lighter tone, saying: "Everyone agrees Labour’s leaked manifesto will take us back to the 1970s, which is why we must re-elect the Conservatives so they can embrace the future, with policies such as bringing back fox hunting." "

Being hand in hand with the unions and giving them more power is moving far left

Jeez no daphnedill not at all

I should have made it clear that seems to be many peoples opinion of those who have their own businesses. Apologies if you thought I was getting at you. I absolutely wasn't . Feel awful .

www.theweek.co.uk/general-election-2017/84508/labour-manifesto-what-the-papers-say

Actually roses, we were having a discussion before certain posters decided to make it personal.

Once again, you call the current Labour Party far-left. That is not a far-left manifesto!

We were actually discussing why some parts of it (at least) would be beneficial for the economy - not ruinous.

Maybe you'd like to explain why non-repayable maintenance grants for students would be ruinous. They were paid until September 2016 and are still being paid for students who started their courses before then. They are affordable.

The government is still paying the money to the students. The only difference is that it is repayable over 30 years. Payment of maintenance grants doesn't affect current balance sheets, but will affect students who come from poorer homes and,in some cases, might put them off HE.

daphnedill so sorry to hear your situation, and I thought I was badly off. Have always worked but like you gave no thought to a pension so didn't pay into employers' scheme, then worked overseas where couldn't pay into UK pension and no NI icontributions, so state pension has big holes too. Currently working to support mortgage but don't know what I'll do when I have to retire..

Opinions on here are all personal opinions apart from the many links to all sorts of sources.Perhaps one or two would prefer if I said that I don't wish to see a far left Government putting into practice many things that could result in ruin for the UK at a time when we will be negotiating all kinds of deals for our country , and which at the moment has full employment.I further don't want to see ( again) the rise of the Unions and a PM who is in their pockets.I don't want to see wildcat strikes.I don't want to see a weak and vacillating PM like Corbyn.
Fortunately, it's not likely to happen with the Conservatives leading the polls .

Yes Maizie, as do I if allowed to.

Were you addressing this at me gillybpb?

^I wish daphnedill !

Why do people always seem to look at anyone in business with suspicion.

I'ts okay for you, you've got your own business.(I would give anything for DH and I to work for someone else)

It must be nice to get cash in hand. (we only work business to business so no cash, ever)

I bet you have a nice house (we sold our last house to put the money into the business, now live in a 2 bedroom terrace)

I bet you have a nice fat pension to look forward to (ha ha see above..... the bit we had has all gone into the business and DH at 65 will probably get to retire when they take him out of the factory in his coffin)

I bet you get away with paying tax and NI (like how? you can't fiddle PAYE can you?)

I bet you get a nice bonus (where from? we just about keep manage to keep the doors open and the bills paid)

I HATE the way people assume you are in business so you are bloody well Richard Branson or Alan Sugar ^

If so,I take great exception.

Firstly, I don't even own my home. It was repossessed when I could no longer pay the mortgage after I had a breakdown, so I have to keep on working to pay rent. Goodness knows what I'll do, when I can no longer work. When I lost my house, I was homeless. The council had nowhere, so I had to give up my son too, because I couldn't look after him just before he did his GCSEs. He went to live with his father, except that (unbeknown to me) his father wasn't there and my son had to look after himself.

Secondly, I don't take cash in hand. I insist all payments are made into a separate bank account, so that I can track the income more easily. annie accused me a few weeks ago of not paying my taxes. Well! Dead right, I don't pay tax,but that's because I earn under the threshold of £11,000.

Thirdly, big fat pension! Yes, I have two pensions.I was lucky, because they started when I was 60. One is from Express Newspapers (boo hiss) and the other is a teachers' pension. Unfortunately, it's not huge either, because I made a huge mistake at one point in my life and opted out of the teachers' pension. Not only that, but I had a break in service and the second part won;t be paid until I'm 65.

My combined pension and profit from self-employment has only just gone over the tax threshold this year for the first time. I have to top up my income from the remaining equity from my house.

I don't pay corporation tax - obviously! What I know is from my investigations into my ex-husband's affairs and further reading showed that some financial advisers were actually advising paying corporation tax instead of income tax as a method of "tax efficiency". I'm not an accountant, so I don't know how it works, but it's obviously a well-known loophole.

I'm afraid I'm spitting mad!

My opinion, but I did say why I held it.

Yes Maizie it's your opinion

I am delighted with the manifesto , all the things I would wish for are included plus more.

I wrote about SMEs before I noticed the thread had ended.
Does it not annoy you, gillybob, that any business with a turnover of less than £25 million gets lumped together with the rest of the 99% of all private businesses?
It's no wonder that people think that all business owners are budding Bransons.

It's okay MazieD Thank you for taking an interest though.

I've thought for a long time that retired people should have their own political party - there's a good number of us now - nearly 20% of the UK population.
My day has gone, but why not, the rest of you? Instead of talking, do something!

I hope this is okay with HQ.
Next time use fewer posts, whitewave.
Nothing else to do while waiting for my grandson to arrive.

National Investment Bank

Establish a new bank that will devote itself to lending 250bn over 10 years for large scale investment projects that the private sector cannot fund and make a profit.
Regional development banks created.

Backing for research and Development will also be one of its aims with a target of reaching 3%of GDP

Analysis

Many have supported an investment bank. With the Treasury cutting back, it is the perfect time for an investment fund backed by the state to boost infrastructure spending.

And here, for what it's worth, is what I found about the privatised rail system

"With regard to the 'cost' of renationalising the railways there's a nice video going round twitter, which I am unfortunately unable to work out how to share with you here, which explains how 'the taxpayer' is already subsidising the railways by a substantial amount and the Train Operating Companies ((TOCs) are creaming off profits without actually paying a realistic price for their franchises. Because, of course, a realistic price would include the costs of maintaining the infrastructure and purchasing rolling stock (they only lease it).

I think the video is a distillation of this report from 2013:

The Great Train Robbery; Rail Privatisation and After

www.cresc.ac.uk/sites/default/files/GTR%20Report%20final%205%20June%202013.pdf

The report was comissioned and part funded by the TUC. It was carried out by academics at the University of Manchester. I realise that the very fact that it was commissioned by the TUC will immediately cause some people to cry 'bias' but to do so, I think, casts an unwarranted slur on the probity of academics.

It is a long, but very easy read. I tried to find some quotes to paste here but as it is such a very complex subject there were no easy 'soundbite' passages.

I offer you this, though:

Ownership, however, is only one aspect of a complex system where demand for train travel is cyclical, where passenger fares cannot cover the costs of running, let along improving the network,and where contracts have done a poor job of protecting the public interest. As we will argue in chapter 7 of this report, British Rail’s record on operating efficiency was very creditable; but, before 1993, the public stereotype of British Rail’s organisation and service was negative as nationalised railways were an object of contempt rather than a national treasure like the NHS. "

Business

Labour wants to discourage ticketing executive pay, short-terminism and unscrupulous behaviour, mentioning BHS.
There will be rewards for firms who pay fair wages and respect the environment.

Analysis

More onerous regime for large companies , but more support for small companies and exporters, by a state backed insurance that guarantees payment even when foreign customers go bust.
Big companies considered important to the UK will be shielded from foreign takeovers.and protected from foreign firms dumping cheap goods in the U.K. But the directors will owe a duty to employees, suppliers and the environment, not just the shareholders.
In order to qualify to be able to tender for government contracts, they must show that they are respecting their workers rights, environment and paying their suppliers on time.
Controversially they must show that their best paid employee has earnings of not more than 20 times that if their lowest earner.
That will prevent Serco, Capita, G4S and other big outsourcing firms from running prisons, and IT systems without a drastic reduction in top pay.

Tuition Fees

Education should be free. Labour will re-introduce maintenance grants for university students and abolish tuition fees

Brexit

Accepts the referendum result.
Will make the single market and customs union priorities. Guarantee the rights of EU nationals. It will reject any "no deal" position, and drop the repeal bill , replacing it with a EU rights and protections bill to ensure no dimishment of existing rights to workers, environment, equality and consumers.

Annie

I don't think that comment is fair. There was an interesting discussion being held at the end of the last thread with gillybob explaining the difficulties faced by their SME, which was very informative, and some points about re-nationalisation of the railways which I thought could be explored further.

There was also something about the validity of 'personal opinion'. I will give you your due and commend the fact that you are completely prepared to back up your opinion of Corbyn with reasons for it. It might get tedious at times but at least we know 'why' you feel the way you do. On the other hand, personal opinion without any explanation of what forms that opinion doesn't make for discussion. It's just a nothing as it offers nothing to discuss. That is, of course, my opinion...