I think that all of us who post on the GN political threads have a good deal more political awareness than most voters- even those I totally disagree with.
Farage fails to report 5 million gift!
dd asked this question on another thread. I can't possibly answer it because I think it's a catch all term which means different things to different people. However, various labels have been mentioned, such as communism, socialism and Marxism, I presume as illustrating 'far left' thinking and it set me thinking.
Marxism is a term which interests me because Marx's ideas were at the basis of communism. Marx as a sociologist was briefly covered in my degree course and I thought his analysis of society was interesting. I still do. On the other hand, I think he spent too much time sitting in the Reading Room of the British Museum and failed to take the reality of human nature into account. His theory of 'communism' quite failed to recognise that no two people think alike and that 'man' is not inherently noble and disinterested. We know from history just what happens in Communist countries and it in no way resembled the workers' nirvana that he visualised. It produced a society that was as hierarchical, repressive and unfair as the contemporary societies he analysed.
However, I think his work offers food for thought as to how societies might be better organised.
These are extracts from a review of his work which I think are still relevant today.
So what was it that made Karl Marx so important? At the cornerstone of his thinking is the concept of the class struggle. He was not unique in discovering the existence of classes. Others had done this before him. What Marx did that was new was to recognize that the existence of classes was bound up with particular modes of production or economic structure and that the proletariat, the new working class that Capitalism had created, had a historical potential leading to the abolition of all classes and to the creation of a classless society. He maintained that “the history of all existing society is a history of class struggle”. Each society, whether it was tribal, feudal or capitalist was characterized by the way its individuals produced their means of subsistence, their material means of life, how they went about producing the goods and services they needed to live. Each society created a ruling class and a subordinate class as a result of their mode of production or economy. By their very nature the relationship between these two was antagonistic. Marx referred to this as the relations of production. Their interests were not the same. The feudal economy was characterized by the existence of a small group of lords and barons that later developed into a landed aristocracy and a large group of landless peasants. The capitalist economy that superseded it was characterized by a small group of property owners who owned the means of production i.e. the factories, the mines and the mills and all the machinery within them. This group was also referred to as the bourgeoisie or capitalist class. Alongside them was a large and growing working class. He saw the emergence of this new propertyless working class as the agent of its own self emancipation. It was precisely the working class, created and organized into industrial armies, that would destroy its creator and usher in a new society free from exploitation and oppression. “What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces, above all, is its own grave-diggers”.
His analysis of 'class' was pretty sound, the bit in bold is what we know he was mistaken about.
^ With the evolution of modern industry, Marx pointed out that workmen became factory fodder, appendages to machines. Men were crowded into factories with army-like discipline, constantly watched by overseers and at the whim of individual manufacturers. Increasing competition and commercial crises led to fluctuating wages whilst technological improvement led to a livelihood that was increasingly precarious. The result was a growth in the number of battles between individual workmen and individual employers whilst collisions took on more and more “the character of collisions between two classes”.^
why is it that Marx felt that the existence of classes meant that the relationship between them was one of exploitation?
In the course of the working day, Marx reasoned, workers produce more than is actually needed by employers to repay the cost of hiring them. This surplus value, as he called it, is the source of profit, which capitalists were able to put to their own use. For instance, a group of workers in a widget factory might produce a hundred widgets a day. Selling half of them provides enough income for the manufacturer to pay the workers’ wages. income from the sale of the other half is then taken for profit. Marx was struck by the enormous inequalities this system of production created. With the development of modern industry, wealth was created on a scale never before imagined but the workers who produced that wealth had little access to it. They remained relatively poor while the wealth accumulated by the propertied class grew out of all proportion. In addition, the nature of the work became increasingly dull, monotonous and physically wearing to the workforce who became increasingly alienated from both the products they were creating, from their own individuality and from each other as human beings.
Sound familiar?
The political system, the legal system, the family, the press, the education system were all rooted, in the final analysis, to the class nature of society, which in turn was a reflection of the economic base.
*This did not mean that education and teaching was a sinister plot by the ruling class to ensure that it kept its privileges and its domination over the rest of the population. There were no conspirators hatching devious schemes. It simply meant that the institutions of society, like education, were reflections of the world created by human activity and that ideas arose from and reflected the material conditions and circumstances in which they were generated*
...the individuals who make up the ruling class of any age determine the agenda. They rule as thinkers, as producers of ideas that get noticed. They control what goes by the name “common sense”. Ideas that are taken as natural, as part of human nature, as universal concepts are given a veneer of neutrality when, in fact, they are part of the superstructure of a class-ridden society. Marx explained that “each new class which puts itself in the place of the one ruling before it, is compelled, simply in order to achieve its aims, to represent its interest as the common interest of all members of society i.e. ..to give its ideas the form of universality and to represent them as the only rational and universally valid ones”. Ideas become presented as if they are universal, neutral, common sense. However, more subtly, we find concepts such as freedom, democracy, liberty or phrases such as “a fair days work for a fair days pay” being banded around by opinion makers as if they were not contentious. They are, in Marxist terms, ideological constructs, in so far as they are ideas serving as weapons for social interests. They are put forward for people to accept in order to prop up the system.
I think this is fair analysis, too. It is also a very simplified version of a large body of work.
The questions in my mind are:
"How far are people willing to accept that the situation Marx analyses is inevitable and has to be lived with?"
And
"Is it reasonable to be influenced by Marx's analysis as a basis for altering the balance in society to ensure a more equable distribution of resources without actually wanting to overthrow the status quo?"
I think that all of us who post on the GN political threads have a good deal more political awareness than most voters- even those I totally disagree with.
What makes you say that? You have, haven't you? And I think most of us on here are quite as politically aware as you are.
Social care because social care is going down the pan because of Tory cuts.
Small state ideology. Well on the way, step by step, hoping the electorate won't notice. Seems to be working.
Theresa May calls the proposal to offer carers a year off without pay "an extension to workers' rights"! The right to a year without pay to look after a sick/dying relative who in the past would have been looked after by the NHS or social services. Social care on the cheap!
Sorry, omit the 'less than'
Carer's allowance is £62.70 a week.
What if you had been the only earner?
We decided on another thread that £900 a month wasn't enough to live on. So what chance would you have on less than £250.80 per 4 wks?
£62 per week 
If you are taking a year off work to care for somebody, wouldn't you receive a full carers allowance?
At least you would know there was a job to go back to.
Heard those phrases many times in Yorkshire when I was growing up whitewave
And used to work with somebody (in Essex) who said it all the time, and strangely enough, we used to live in Cornwall, where I never heard it! Not that it matters a jot, but the words are not dialect and are/were probably used all over the country.
I will grant you the Cornish pasties though 
Now, onto weightier matters.......
( although pasties make you pretty weighty.)
I really don't know what they think. The wealthy in wealthier areas don't even want to pay increased council tax to support the poor in their own areas, never mind in any other area. Bodmin and Hartlepool might as well be in Estonia as far as some of them are concerned.

but the Cornish do not 'own' the phrase - it's not like a Cornish pasty with Protected Geographical status.
I am sure I'e heard it used elsewhere, even overseas
Too true, I've always been mystified why areas with substantial EU subsidies voted to leave, surely they don't seriously think they're going to get that money from our goverment instead?
The Cornish will eventually understand the truth of that dd
And you think that will change?
The council tax formula (can't remember what it's called) already means that people in wealthier areas subsidise the poorer areas, although the Conservatives are rebalancing the payments.
Can you honestly see people in those same areas voting for plans to raise taxes to be given to Cornwall, Wales, the North East, etc?
I don't see it. The EU benefitted those areas, precisely because it's outside direct UK control.
As a Cornish maid, I know that it is a term or was when I was a child -times change I know- "bugger me" said with a broad Cornish accent. But If rose wishes to disagree that is her prerogative and I am very relaxed about it.
anyway the EU money did not always go where it was needed, as often happens when bureaucracy is involved.
Don't wish to cause an argument but the Cornish could lay claim to the term 'Poor Bugger'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3Ci7ssuIXU
Sung with great gusto after a good night out
rosesarered 
Just about the only people who could afford to take a year off work with no pay are partners/spouses of people with well paid jobs. I wonder how such people vote. 
You can afford a year with no pay as long as you have the spare cash equivalent of a year's pay in the bank or under the mattress. How many of us will that help?
The Tories are not offering to help employers accommodate this generous new policy. Especially for small businesses, this could be very expensive and inconvenient.
This, like so many offers from the Tories, is little more than an empty gesture. It would be a lot more credible if a reasonable income was offered to family carers and the employers were also supported financially, to allow this to happen.
sorry for missing words in post, I hope you get the drift!
Well, I think we can all be pretty certain that if TM wins the election she won't be keeping all her promises.
Actually, one thing I thought typical really of how politicians can hoodwink pthe electorate: on the Today program people which party proposed a year of unpaid leave to act as a carer, and the immediate response seemed to be largely labour; but although it sounds generous, who can afford a year on no pay!!
But is this a manifesto you can honestly support, Annie?
I have no idea how the promises will turn out, I certaintly do not believe they will all happen
Will you be repeating the promises in the Labour Party manifesto, Annie or do you think some of them might turn out to be lies?
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