Ian Brady

MOnica I don't agree with capital punishment.
But on a practical note, if they had been hanged after the trial, they would never have admitted to killing Pauline Reade and Keith Bennett so her body would never have been found.

Mental illness can cause evil acts , is eating human body parts simply evil and not something done because of a mental illness ?

I may not believe in a god, but I believe in the existence of good and evil. To deny the latter is also to deny the former Annie

Because there was no diagnose at the time doesn't mean it didn't exist ,or were psychopaths only born twenty years after the moors murders.

He and his cohort Hindley were evil, their actions were evil. Is evil the same as mentally ill, I do not think so. The world is a better place without them. If only Keith Bennett's body could be found to give his family a chance to say goodbye.

I was reminded this morning that Hindley and Brady were convicted shortly after capital punishment was banned. Something I supported then and support now

Nevertheless the thought went through my mind that by not being hanged they were able to milk their notoriety for over 50 years. And I began to wish they had been caught tried and sentenced some months early when their rapid execution would have banished them into obscurity and the families they so damaged, would not have had the additional torment of the constant publicity sought and given to this unpleasant couple for all that time.

I'm sick of the modern propensity to downgrade the purely evil as being 'mentally ill' - it's an insult to those who do genuinely suffer from mental illness and a cop out.

There's one less monster in the world today.

What point are you making?

Criminal insanity is a specific legal term used in sentencing. AFAIK Brady was not considered to be criminally insane when he was sentenced.

The diagnosis of psycopathy was nearly 20 years after the trial and had no bearing at all on the original sentence.

Being a psycopath does not necessarily make somebody criminally insane, so a diagnosis at the trial wouldn't have made any difference, although it's possible he would have been sent to a secure psychiatric hospital in the first place. The only real difference is that psychiatric hospitals are run by the NHS and inmates have access to psychiatric services.

Why?

Peter Sutcliffe was a paranoid schizophrenic. There was no doubt about that.
We will do well to remember the repentant thief who was being crucified with Christ.

Same was said of Sutcliffe, 1981 in .parkhurst, 1984 in Broadmore , no mistake there then

There is a specific definition of criminal insanity. Brady did not claim it at the time of his trial and served the first part of his sentence in ordinary prisons.

He was diagnosed as a psycopath in the mid 80s, was sectioned under the Mental Health Act and transferred to Ashworth, which had no bearing on the original verdict.

Gosh ,thanks Sparkly.

celebgran, being mentally ill does not mean low Intellegence

Surprised to hear the news reporting on his childhood, illigitimate in the thirties ? That made a child an outcast for starters .

Exactly lucklegs

That poor mother died not knowing even where her son's grave was,

Evil doesn't cover it I don't believe he was mentally ill to some extent obviously but he was capable of planning and carrying out the most eveil obnoxious crimes ever against innocent children.

Actually mrsmopp I hate to say this, Hindley did repent and became a Christian.

Anniebach I agree with you.

But I am comparing like with like, Donald Neilsin who ate body parts of his victims wasn't mentally ill?

If they say sorry let them live, if they don't,hang them .

We either believe anyone capable of carry out these crimes is mentally ill or we do not. I believe they are, this doesn't take away the horror I feel of the crimes, the sympathy for the families.

I know nothing of Brady apart from the crimes and the press reports, I don't know anything about his childhood , if he had carried out brutal acts before these murders, I do not believe a healthy, mentally balanced person commits these crimes.

Anniebach in your post at 11.04 you are not comparing like with like. There is no comparison with Ellis, Bentley and Evans and the Moors murderers. Brady and Hindley accepted their guilt and were unrepentant. Crimes against defenseless children are heinous and shocking. Why keep him in prison for over 50 years and end up force feeding him to keep him alive against his will?
The repercussions continue for the still grieving families of those children.

What do you know of Brady's upbringing paddyann?

Anniebach no, if he was mentally ill, he was mentally ill. People have less control over their actions and no, we as a society should not be killing people with mental illness.

Nor in ordinary society, shunning them or treating them differently.

However, I think Hell might have been busy last night, with Brady's passing.

I dont believe Brady and the killers of James Bulger are in the same category at all.In fact I believe the parents of those boys were as guilty as their sons.These children were raised in a most horrific way,they saw things children should never see,they were damaged ..I'm not excusing what they did because it was an awful crime ,but I think the lines between fact and fantasy (all the horror films ,games etc) were blurred for them .Their parents should have been on trial for their crimes alongside them

I don't understand the arguments put forward, suppose it comes down to ones views on mental illness

Although I understand the feelings of those who would have liked him to be allowed to starve to death when he stopped eating in 1999, I agree with the stance taken whereby he was force fed for the rest of his life. He was, by all reports, a manipulative, controlling man and allowing him to starve to death would have given him the control he craved. I also read a while ago that he was requesting return to a 'normal' prison, but the fact that he was on hunger strike was given as an illustration of his need to stay in a prison hospital. I remember it being all over the news when I was a child.

It's always been an argument that to be as depraved and wicked as the Moors murderers, the Yorkshire Ripper, the killers of Jamie Bolger or indeed any "cold blooded killer" one cannot be mentally "normal" so proving that a murderer was not of sound mind has always been a tempting defence.
I personally do not subscribe to that get-out of diminished responsibility. However if a murderer is consigned to Broadmoor "at Her Majesty's Pleasure" rather than a high security prison, his(or her) sentence is indeed a potential LIFE sentence, without parole or the possibility of release after 18 or so years.
Ian Brady,mentally ill? Not, in this case, I think, just EVIL manipulative to the end and depraved.

I heard an interview with someone who had visited him. Brady told him he knew exactly where Keith Bennett was buried but wouldn't say unless the authorities gave in to his demands. He also thought that once the body was recovered his "fame" would diminish and he would be forgotten. A truly evil man.

Do we not accept the man was mentally ill? Do we really want to go back to the time when we hanged the likes of Ruth Ellis, Derek Bently, Timothy Evans , mental illness and learning difficulties ?