Paying for social care - good news or bad news?

When most people died within a couple of years of retirement, if they actually reached it, I think even those running it thought the NHS was for care from the cradle to the grave. They have been hiving more and more off since we annoyingly started to lived longer.

I think, if you had a combined Health and Social Care insurance it wouldn't matter Jen. That's why I am so keen on it. The same happens with mental health. Whatever they say it is not treated the same as physical health. It's because it is not so measurable and the Conservatives in particular and some New Labour want to turn us all into measurable widgets.

I don't understand this 'dementia tax' (have been out of any loops for a few days). What if you need care for reasons other than for dementia? What if it's just because you are physically incapable of dressing, cooking etc but still as sharp as a tack?

Don't understand it .....

I think it is just because dementia is such a large problem Jalima. It is thought that one in three of the over 65s could suffer from it in the future. In our comparatively small family, 1 grand parent, 2 parents, 2 middle-aged children and 2 grandchildren we have two cases of dementia.

Other people certainly do need care but the original coining in the press of the 'Dementia Care Tax' was probably because it gives a focus.

So it's an assumption then, that care is needed mainly by people with dementia whereas many people may need care because of physical disabilities which is what happened to my MIL and also DM (although the family cared for DM).

Have ignored papers, news etc for a few days.

I don't know Jalima. I imagine someone has done some research somewhere - the Dilnot Commission perhaps.

The actual coining of the name Dementia Care Tax will be more to do with the media - including social, I would have thought.

I will have to do some homework.

George Osborne doesn't like Maybot, does he?

news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-writhes-in-the-spotlight-of-sharp-questions-over-u-turn-10888901

This is from the Dilnot Report.

Care and support is something that everyone in this country will experience and be part of at some point in their lives. Some people have impairments from birth, or develop an impairment or mental health condition during their working life, and use care and support to maintain active and independent lives. Many, as they become older, become more frail and rely on care and support from others. As the Prime Minister’s Challenge on Dementia has already shown, we are committed to improving the lives of people with care needs.

I am not sure if that helps but I think you would have to look at the academic literature to really find the details.

Oh my. That is definitely a knife waiting for a back Jen.

Jalima It was just called that because there are conditions like cancer for which people won't have to pay for care because it will be consider health care rather than social care and other conditions like dementia which are considered social rather than health care and so people will have to pay for care.
It is not an official name and it was just coined to emphasise how unfair it is.
Since announcing it the Tories have announced through Hunt that it is definitely not going ahead and through May that it definitely is but will not be costed until after the election.

Once again - In Germany every wage earner and pension receiver pays 1.5% into the Pflegeversicherung. Care insurance. It is compulsary.
People in care homes or sheltered housing are divided into 5 categories.
!. not able to live alone 2. Dement, 3. needing 3+ hours personal care per day and 4 and 5 bedridden.

The money is paid out monthly and if you have a pension to add to it it would more or less cover the costs.
You can pay extra insurance to cover high costs and of course a house to sell will always be an advantage.
We are lucky in that this system was started about 25 years ago and money has accumulated when there were not so many needing help as now or in the future.
A penny in the pound on NI would almost amount to the same.

But - if someone needs care because of physical weaknesses caused by illnesses other than dementia they would still have to pay.
Just general old age and infirmity would be a reason - 'the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak' as was the case with my MIL.

It does raise the issue of fairness. If someone is unfortunate enough to need either kind of care, they deserve to receive care. Some medical treatments can be very expensive, so how does that balance with the cost of caring for someone who needs support with day-to-day functioning and wellbeing?

Why is dementia "social care" and cancer or what have you "medical care"? Rubbish.

You can get NHS continuing care for dementia, but only in rare cases, such as if you are considered to be a danger to yourself and others.

That's right Jalima. It is not really call the Dementia Tax it is just a name for the press to hang it on.

MargaretX why am I not surprised that Germany actually recognised the problem well ahead of time while our governments didn't. Is that 1.5% of total income? I think we could all manage 1.5% knowing what it was for but we would have to do something to make up for the empty pot we currently have so this older generation, having not paid in while they were working, might have to pay something before they got help.

"One senior Conservative, former deputy Speaker Nigel Evans, said she had not gone far enough and should unveil the exact level of the cap before polling day. Some Tories were suggesting £150,000, £200,000 and £300,000 as possible levels."

Maybot's not telling anyone, then.

called not call

Those sort of amounts are ridiculous
There really ought to be a strong call for a form of NI.

Tory MPs suggetsing those levels. Not surprising, really. So out of touch with normal people.
I wonder which will supersede, when they realise that IHT and the dementia tax don't work together.

I am now totally unclear as to what they intend. At least yesterday i knew where we stood.

Fair enough, durhamjen, but just a way to define different medical cares. Anyway, social care, at home or in a care home, isn't free. With the new scheme, the limits of what one can keep change from £23000 to £100k. So, is not that better to currently?

Nick Timothy will be the fall guy.

No one knows what they intend least of all TM and that bunch of we'll never have to worry about funding any sort of care for ourselves or getting down to our last £100k and anyway all the money for our children is tied up in family trusts so there idiots aka the Cabinet

CCHQ have just made up an outright lie about the Labour party and tweeted it.

twitter.com/CCHQPress