Is it too late for a U turn on Brexit or at least watering it down?

Sorry, whitewave said Brexiters are lying...

Ouch! Brexiters are liars? Or their views are just different from yours Welshwife? Can't we accept a difference of point of view without labelling things as lies? It's not helpful.

No one has responded to my point that even if the UK changes its collective mind the EU might be hostile to our wish to stay in. In two years time, when any second vote might take place, so much would have happened it might be too difficult to call a halt. Any thoughts?

I agree about A50 being stoppable Cindersdad -- the other thing people seem to have failed to take on board is that the 27 remaining countries are the ones which will decide on any 'deal' the UK is offered. When you think about it that is obvious as each country will have one vote but actually it was written into the rules about any country leaving the EU.
The U.K has been given enormous leeway all the time it has been a member of the EU - allowed to have different rules to the other members. People have many different ideas of what the EU does and doesn't do and if it is elected - which the Parliament is - and the members of the Council are nominated by their country and they are a representative of that country.
Can anyone tell us one really positive outcome of this Brexit which they are confident will happen.
Many lies have been circulated about the EU, the members and the rules over the years - and also many lies and jokes made by people who should have known better - and unfortunately many people believed them.
I just wonder how bad things will need to go before people might just consider the UK got it wrong.
Michael O'Leary has already stated that as things are looking now he will need to stop taking bookings from the UK towards the end of next year for 2019 and move his fleet and relocate the crews.

Yes cinders A50 is not irreversible - surely the Brexiters aren't lying to use again?

Why have you changed your mind James? Surely you gave the matter due consideration before voting and you chose to vote out. I know young and old who voted for or against leaving , they were a mixed bunch and had mixed opinions.
You seem to have something in common with Teresa, she keeps changing her mind too!

Article 50 does not have to be final - it can be stopped anytime until the point of actual departure. In fact the Euro-sceptic Tories when the idea was first muted said there should be a referendum when the final terms are known.

The referendum is not legally binding. The Bully Boy Brexiteers would like you thinks so and are incapable of thinking they could just be wrong.

Have a good trip James and enjoy your time with your grandchildren and with your sons/daughters.

Agreed Merlot.

James, Have you any idea how many young people are not the least bit interested in politics and couldn't give a shit toss about Brexit?

Maybe if some of the more informed and educated ones had bothered to vote in the referendum they wouldn't be belly-aching now.

I get annoyed at the suggestion that we should have discussed how WE should vote with young people who will always expect to have everything on a plate.

My vote was MY business.

Enjoy your trip james us remainer said will still be here when you get back

We are trying our level best not to let the UK go down the plug hole.

Hi Ana, I am afraid it was me that was at fault, the grandchildren live 240 miles away and I was abroad until a week before the referendum and failed to consult. I have regretted it since.

My simple view is that the grandchildren have their future in front of them and it's their future rather than mine which is more important. They will have to live with the decision taken for decades beyond my life on this earth, so I believe young peoples views take greater priority than mine.
Though it looks as if the leaver brigade don't agree with my simple philosophy. Good night all, wife and I are presently travelling North on the train to North Lancashire to see our grandchildren and their parents.

Agree Nigglynellie and James, with respect, the ideology I referred to was that of the terrorists.

What nigglynellie said on all posts.

Yes James, it was well discussed, but in our family we respect each others views and accept that we all have different opinions. We don't take the attitude that one generation knows better than the other, we accept that all our views are valid even though we may see things differently. We grandparents are not regarded as silly old duffers who don't know their heads from their heels. Likewise our young are not regarded in the same light. We were pretty evenly divided, 4 for leave,(two under 25) 2 for remain. We all voted as we saw fit and for serious reasons. None of us regret that vote or have any issue with each other, the same with the GE.

Pity your young family members didn't get more involved before the referendum James2451 instead of leaving it until now to complain.

Well, negotiations are only due to begin in the next few weeks, so it will be interesting to see how they shape up.

I think that it will be very soon understood that a deal has to be struck, regardless of all the rather puerile and ignorant statements made by the Brexit ministers.

A deal will be struck - I have full confidence in that, but whether it will be remotely like what so many who voted for Brexit envisaged is entirely unlikely.

Have you asked your young family members for their views, after all we are talking about their future more than ours!

I have and I was so surprised how they felt about the majority of older people voting out without discussing it within the full family circle. Even today the majority are still saying we know best, even if it is not their long term future that is being put at risk.

Exactly- none of us knows what sort of brexit will emerge at the end of the day so why this presumption of a hard one?! I too want the best possible deal both for us and Europe in every respect and I believe that out of the three party leaders Theresa May is the only one even remotely equipped to get that deal. I have no desire to argue with other GNers so won't be reacting to any vitriolic comments.

It is not ideology, that frankly is rather insulting to a person who is really worried about the future and is not prepared to gamble with his grandchildren's future.

As to a hard Brexit, just listen to the views of IDS & Boris and their cries of sheer rhetoric on Brexit. We can close our eyes and presume all will be well, or we can insist on knowing before we leave what are the full terms being negotiated, which Teresa May is refusing to divulged somshe is not showing her hand it is not a game of cards, and frankly I do not trust her Leave campaigners. The ideology is more with those who refuse to listen to any alternative views.

I'm happy to say that I'm an oldie who voted to remain in EU. Don't include me in your opening statement james.
We've voted. Unfortunately we got the wrong outcome. That's democracy though.

James!!!! It's a myth that oldies voted for Brexit! I didn't (age 65) and don't know anyone around my age who did!!

I agree Mollie, I feel exactly the same today as I did a year ago. For years Brussels has treated the UK with barely disguised contempt, and yet now we're going it's hysterics all round! If we are/ were so important why on earth wasn't it made just a little more attractive in every respect to make sure that we of all countries wouldn't even contemplate leaving?! Incidentally I don't even in my seventh decade consider myself to be an 'oldie' who opinion is clearly misguided and worthless with the younger generations opinion being the only one that is relevant! If that's the case why give the over 50's a vote in anything?!!!

Sorry ideology.

It is precisely because of my children and grandchildren I voted to leave the EU so they would have a better future. I have my reasons for so doing and do not wish to get into a slanging match with any other GNers on here, but where has this hard Brexit come from, how do you know what on earth is going to happen? The whole point of negotiations is precisely that, to negotiate, each party trying to get the best deal for themselves and I want the best possible deal for the Uk to ensure our future prosperity, security and wellbeing for generations to come. With regard to the awful tragedy that happened in Manchester, terrorism is a global problem and Europe and other countries across the world have come together and will do so in the future in order to help defeat this awful ideaology, whether we are in the EU or not.

I've been wondering about this because - if I understand this properly - the Lib Dems manifesto states they will try to reverse Brexit or give us a second referendum (can't remember which). The point is that now we've declared intent and both sides have huffed and puffed and the EU is treating us as undesirables how can we expect to change our minds, go back to the EU and say 'we'd like to stay' and expect to be received with arms wide open. They won't treat us like the prodigal son. They'll twist every bit of pain out of us because the Brexit effect is already being felt, apparently, and they won't forgive or forget.

As for having to admit we got it wrong, sorry, not me! I knew why I voted for Brexit and I'm more convinced now than ever and it had nothing to do with Ukip or it's ideology.