Is it too late for a U turn on Brexit or at least watering it down?

Posh boy Gove busy trying to spin a Hard Brexit and trying to convince us all that he is the greenest MP ever
R4

I don't know what is going on either. I know what I hope is going on. The majority of MP's themselves voted REMAIN. A few have "come out" and many more are hedging their bets. The collapse of UKIP support surely has to indicate that where the referendum to be rerun (that should not happen!) there would be a large majority for REMAIN. We are heading it would seem for a soft Brexit, in reality that would cost almost as much as membership of the EU with little or no say.

Pragmatic logic simply says we are better off in the EU than out of it. Within the EU we can fight our corner much better. We can trade more or less independently as the Germans have done. They are just better at making and selling things than we are and that is our fault though the UK is getting better at it.

Parliament if it chooses has the muscle to blow Brexit out of the water.

The Telegraph is written that it is aware of secret talks going on between Tory anf Lanour remainers. Apparently May is aware but done nothing about it?

What on earth is going on?

Can we assume that "Brexit no longer means Brexit"

I have to admit that passed me by Jen

That's what I thought, GracesGran.

Here's another link about the EU.
Did you know it's the 200th anniversary of the bicycle?

www.indy100.com/article/eu-brexit-eurostat-uk-election-2017-theresa-may-conservative-dup-coalition-hung-parliament-7786196

No idea what a subtweet is.

Wow Jen that is a powerful and beautiful article - and strangely soothing

I don't know why they have to be secret. I think an awful lot of the public just want them to get together and get on with whatever 'it' is going to be.

Secret talks, eh, GracesGran?
Not another lot of secret talks!

Here's an excellent article by Paul Mason, saying why it's the end of Brexit and neoliberalism.

www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2017/jun/12/paul-mason-jeremy-corbyn-defeat-ruling-elite-antonio-gramsci

Hopefully signing will just add to the messages they are getting - this is certainly interesting.

Tory and Labour MPs plot secret deal to ensure soft Brexit

There seemed to be some debate on the paper review as to whether the talks were that secret but I shall just be glad if they are talking. In the middle of the article it also says:

Labour is expected to use the talks as leverage to demand an end to the public sector pay freeze among a series of concessions in next week’s Queen’s Speech at the State Opening of Parliament.

It's a 'premium' article so I can't read it all but perhaps someone else will be able to.

You're welcome. I can't help thinking that turning the clock back a year would make life a bit simpler - although probably not so full of surprises.

Thanks daphnedill, a good explanation.

GG, 'be signed too,

You've probably seen this before, but it's worth a repeat

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXVVCT4Jcs8

Yes i saw that gg

I've signed your petition

Survation 10 June

Following the General Election Theresa May should

Resign as Prime Minister 49%
Not resign as Prime Minister 38%

I'm never to sure about petitions or how much good they can do but I do think the Brexit negotiations should be cross party and this is one asking for that.

The Prime Minister, Theresa May
Brexit negotiations should be conducted by a multi-party committee

The number of nurses applying to the NHS from the EU has fallen by 96% since the referendum - on 46 nurses have applied.

jane music to my ears

daphnedil I think you're quite right. There's no chance of the tories being elected next time. Labour can just sit back and watch developments.

labourlist.org/2017/06/seb-dance-young-people-turned-out-to-reject-mays-insular-vision-for-britain-now-we-must-offer-them-a-european-future/

Davis had better not count the young in his 80%.

I'm a LibDem member, so maybe I shouldn't write this, but I think the LibDems had a poor campaign. Part of the problem for them is that they have no money and don't have rich donors. My local branch apparently has absolutely no money left in the bank. I don't think the media is kind to Tim Farron.

The LDs relied on Brexit in a number of by-elections and local elections, which was a successful strategy, but there were problems in the South West heartlands, because those areas voted Leave. The strategy didn't work well in a general election.

The LDs failed to regain (or lost) seats in Cambridge, Leeds North West and Manchester Withington. All constituencies had previously had good LD MPs and I know something about them. The Labour Party had pro-Remain candidates, who were all honest about their position and promised to campaign for a soft Brexit. In the end, voters were more concerned about austerity and just hoped that Labour would challenge the Conservatives' position on Brexit. They also felt that a Labour MP would have more clout than a LibDem one.

PS. I think the Labour Party still has a problem with Brexit, because their new younger members don't want it, but the older, more traditional voters do (although there is some doubt about that, because some Ukip voters have returned to Labour). If I were a Labour Party strategist, the last thing I would want at the moment would be to be in government. Let the Conservatives make a hash of things and take ownership, then be around to pick up the pieces.

Ironically, the LibDems might get a second referendum/softer Brexit anyway.

MN report in Guardian which states the EU has said if May insists on running with the divorce and trade in tandem will mean that Brexit will delayed for. Up to a year.

Apparently the EU has been secretly briefing No 10 for months about their stance so that the UK could get its ducks in line.

But they are still in chaos without a plan

Just shows how stupid David Davis is, then, maizie.
Fancy assuming that everyone who voted Labour and Tory voted for his form of Brexit. It was probably only ten per cent!