Internationalist or pacifist, you can't be both

Have a look at my post above 17.49 -

The reason is that he has consistently said that he would use military action "in the last resort" and I think that most people would agree with that. As would I argued Churchill.

He recognises that a governments primary responsibility is to keep its citizens secure.

He understands the need for a well equipped. And trained army.

Corbyn is against Trident. As are many throughout the UK including Tory and Labour MPs. We have no control whatsoever over a weapon on which we are prepared to spend untold millions -madness.

x posts, ww. Please tell us how you know JC isn't a pacifist because he certainly goves the impression that he is.

Only if you accept that he is a pacifist and I dont

So yes, the thesis is that you can't be both an internationalist and a pacifist. So, Jeremy Corbyn is not an internationalist. He's an isolationist.

Thanks mollie grateful for that - had Mum today and exhausted!! So brain not functioning as well as it should.

Yes I think that is a misunderstanding of Corbyns stance. He most certainly isn't a pacifist, but neither is he a hawk. His instinct is always to try to negotiate the way out of a situation rather than throw bombs at it first and then give talking a go. I believe his position is similar to Churchills,

I think that the vast majority of people would agree with this stance. The gutter press of course are trying their level best to trash him, and with the polls narrowing we can expect them to pull as many rabbits out of their scruffy hats as possible.

mollie has explained it, ww. Essentially it means that in extremis you have to be willing to stand up and fight for what you want to protect from evil. It doesn't mean you want war, only that it certain circumstances (Nazi Germany was one), it may be necessary. As a internationalist one needs to be able to accept that.

Pacifism is an is an ideal (a good one) but we don't live in an ideal world. It's the usual problem of things not being simple black and white.

Basically, if you want to be part of the crowd you have to be prepared to fight for the crowd. Is that right? I assumed Corbyn believed in talk/negotiation not war rather than turning away and playing neutral like Switzerland (except they weren't really were they)

bags I would appreciate a summary if it isn't too much bother!! Only I am finding it too disjointed to be able to follow it.

So is the thesis that you can't be a pacifist and an internationalist? Why is what I would like to understand.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for that, thatbags.