Why the reluctance to answer questions and face the real electorate ?

So right

Elizabeth Warren quote: “There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

I'm surprised at you dj. I thought you knew me better than to make personal comments like that. I'm certainly not off with the wealth makers. I was genuinely pondering historical taxation, why the levels rose (to fund the war mainly). How our economy and expectations grew and changes were incrementally introduced and why. Cross referencing this with human nature leads me to believe that those levels of taxation just plain wouldn't be tolerated. I know in an ideal world all would be completely different but we don't live in such a utopia and must just try to get on.

I'm explaining my thought process in detail because you just seem to attribute it to my being a Tory - but I'm not!! These are my real opinions. As I've said before on GN I've voted Labour and Liberal Democrats in the past. The sort of vitriol being put forward on the forum is desperately off putting and not doing socialism any favours. I had said I'm off as soon as I'd read who else was on this thread.

But at least we are talking about what Jane says she believes RAR.

You, rather like your beloved Tories are - to be polite - making things up. No one on has come close to saying they think "all things will be free and wonderful if only Corbyn got into power".

You have reached a new level RAR as only you can.

No, they don't think they're free. Labour has costed its manifesto.

Ahem! The wealth generators are the people who create the wealth ie the workers.

However, the biggest wealth generator of all at the moment is the assets you already own. People are already squirrelling the profits from other people's wealth creation abroad or into "tax efficient" schemes. Property ownership creates more wealth than working for many people. People can't take their property abroad and most will choose to stay in the UK, because they actually get a good deal.

I'm not suggesting that we do it totally, because I do think that people need incentives to work harder or be more entrepreneurial, but if the total wealth of the UK were to be divided evenly, there would be plenty so that nobody went without basics.

I should think Jane means off this thread.
Buy Tory lies? Some people are buying Labour lies thinking that all things will be free and wonderful if only Corbyn got into power.Big mistake!

home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/tax-rates-online.html

Corporate tax rates on here. They can all move to tax havens and pay nothing, but they will not be able to trade here.

Where are you off to, Jane? Going to leave with the wealth creators?
The level of benefits is not sustainable?
What do you suggest we do, starve people so they don't claim benefits because they are dead?
Oh, yes, I forgot, that's what Mayhem does at the moment, isn't it?
How dare people be poor and want housing and feeding?

That's what people believe when they by the Tory lies though Trisher. Amazing really.

Where would they go Jane10? We have one of the lowest levels of corporation tax in the developed world, even if it is put up it will still be better than the others.

Oh God. I'm off.

Those levels of taxation would lead to the flight of the wealth generators from the UK. People and their money and resources are much more mobile and globally oriented. The entrepreneurs and people who set up businesses and create employment are what we need and we need them to stay not scare them off with massive tax rises.

It is if the economy is properly managed Jane. If you have a high earning economy many things are possible. It is easy to understand if you think of the current economy where so many people do not earn enough and have to be supported by credits. Upskill the people, invest in the infrastructure and ensure that companies invest too. And ... as Labour has suggested, move the balance of industry more towards making things and away from services.

A high earning country can afford decent benefits and is likely to need fewer. As I have said before, the Conservatives have kept us in 'austerity' for far longer than was necessary. They have lied to you Jane. We did not need this extreme poverty; it was foisted on us for ideological reasons and you, and many others, have bought their lies. We might not have been at the heights many of us would like to see at this point but without the mantra of austerity we would all be better of and, perhaps, being rather kinder to our neighbours who aren't.

That level of benefits invested in an educated population who contributed much to the society we have now. The alternative is an uneducated, low paid workforce and is of course what the Tories want, they will then be able to cut taxes, cut state provision and allow the richest to prosper whilst the poorest survive if they can.

That level of benefits wasn't sustainable though. I don't think it's realistically possible now.

There were also many elderly people like my grandparents living on very small pensions in slum accommodation and some like my grandfather dying of TB.

Tax rates were very high indeed post war. Life was much harder then and there were much lower living costs and, basically, much less to actually buy.
There were many elderly people living off the interest from capital who were desperately impoverished by the high taxation of what was referred to as 'unearned income' so winners and losers in those days. (My Dad was a doctor and always worried about the legion of proud old ladies living on what they had left).
The immediate post war socialist movement changed radically as we moved into nationally more prosperous times.
I love the mass observation diaries and really enjoy reading about real life back then. Sorry, have moved off topic but I suppose then was then and now is now and direct comparison isn't really feasible.

Thatcher introduced individualism.

I'm talking 1948-70 Jane10 no idea what tax rates were but it was a period when most people believed in supporting the less well off and providing education and opportunity for them. We managed it when people had very little in the way of material possessions, so I wonder why we can't fund it when everyone has so much more ?

This is why Mayhem should avoid answering questions. She could have lost lots of votes again by telling that nurse there was no magic money tree.

www.indy100.com/article/magical-money-tree-theresa-may-nurse-bbc-question-time-pay-rise-7770611

www.indy100.com/article/magic-money-tree-brexit-350-million-nhs-conservative-labour-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-7770821

Wow! Look at this.

www.indy100.com/article/british-fighters-syria-isis-kurds-ypg-jeremy-corbyn-vote-labour-election-2017-7771246

www.indy100.com/article/iain-duncan-smith-freudian-slip-bbc-breakfast-tory-ids-conservative-bbc-7771026

For you, Tegan.

I was interested in your answers Trisher so I Googled tax rates in 1970s. Was very surprised at how incredibly high the top rate was: 90% on investment income for example. I really don't think any government could get away with that today. Obviously the government back then didn't either. Finding the happy medium where just enough taxes are raised without driving out the sort of people who generate money and create employment, hence more potential tax payers, must be extremely tricky.

Through taxes.The biggest expansion and provision of nursery education ever happened during the war years when nurseries were provided to get women to work in munitions etc. At the end of the war these nurseries carried on for a few more years providing care for children without fathers. In my case my mum was ill so I was given a place. My dad took me on his way to work and collected me after he finished. These nurseries closed in the 50s
Grants came from local authorities and were means tested.
Local authorities also gave clothing grants to poor families if their child won a grammar school place.
All provided when we were a poor country devastated from WW2
Oh and we had a cleaner as well because mum couldn't do housework (paid for)