Forced institutionalisation

I'm not sure exactly why this man was being taken out against his will. Surely he'd have a mobile phone and someone senior he could complain to?

Not possible to agree or disagree , was he taken out into fresh air because he was glued to a computer all day every day and the carers were following medical advice .

Was there no carer to stay indoors with him and so he was taken out for his own safety

Doubt it has anything to do with the conservatives or any party in power

An overheard conversation does not tell the whole story.I do think that all disabled people should have their wishes taken into consideration, of course.It cannot be linked to a political party though.

You missed a bit off your quote, vq.
The whole paragraph reads
But instead of defending disabled people’s right to live in their own homes, Mordaunt said: “The decision about whether to institutionalise somebody against their will is rightly a matter for medical professionals, and decisions should be made on the grounds of individual safety and health.”

Do all disabled people have an absolute right to live in their own homes?
If doctors and social workers are in agreement that they would be safer and better cared for in an 'institution'?
'Institution' is a very emotive word conjuring images of 19th century asylums and dreadful programmes on television, but it does not have to be like that.
Obviously the autonomy of the disabled person is paramount, but that has to be balanced with safety issues too, and dare I say it, cost. Things are never simple or easy.
What would you do, for example, about a young adult who had learning difficulties, who had been living with their parents and couldn't live independently, and the parents could no longer cope?

Why shouldn't disabled people have the right to live in their own homes? Not everyone needs institutionalised care.

I said that others would have to make decisions about people who weren't capable of making informed choices but people who can should have the right to decide for themselves.

We're the sixth richest country in the world. We can afford to care for our old, sick and disabled in their own homes if they are able to make informed choices.

I told the story about the young man because it shows how disabled people who are capable of making decisions can be forced to do things against their will just because they are disabled. If someone is mentally capable of making informed decisions then it is his choice whether to go out or stay in. You and I may stay in if we choose to no matter what the weather is or what others think.

I said I wasn't linking it to the Conservatives even though I mentioned them. The only reason they were mentioned was because I was quoting a Conservative minister.

My OP asks is it OK to force disabled people into institutions against their will.

no its not OK ,most people are better in their own surroundings and if they have help they will manage well .In my area we have had a lot of hospital closures which means people being sent to other areas where family and friends cant visit easily ,when people are ill or disabled their family/visitors are a lifeline so they should be able to choose where they want to be.It helps with the healing if there are faces and people you love around you,being "sent away" against your will to live amongst strangers is a terrible thing to inflict on people in need

How do we even know this person was in an institution? He could be being cared for in his own home by carers who fancied a day out with their friends.

But you also asked is this what other disabled people have to look forward to under the conservatives , so it is political.

Impossible to say yes or no , it depends on the individual surely .

And I agree With .janeainsworth, institution belongs to the 19th century sorry

vq Why shouldn't disabled people have the right to live in their own homes? Not everyone needs institutionalised care

Of course they have a right to live in their own homes. No-one has said they haven't.

But it isn't an absolute right. There will be circumstances very occasionally, where someone doesn't want to do something, but it's in their best interests, as judged by caters, social workers, family, doctors.

It's like saying that a patient in a hospital has a right to see a consultant of their choice, or have access to a particular drug.

In theory yes.
In practice, it doesn't work that way. Under any system where a third party (in this case the State aka the taxpayer) is funding care or treatment, compromises and pragmatic solutions sometimes have to override an individual's wishes.

Is this what other disabled people have to look forward to under the Conservatives?
So - some carers were not as caring as they should be and not doing the job for which they are paid.

Is that the fault of the Conservatives or the fault of the people doing the caring? There are always bad eggs in every job or profession and it sounds as if these carers were not mindful of his needs, not doing their job appropriately or even neglectful.
This could happen however much money is thrown at a situation.

I do know someone who runs her own independent care business and the people she looks after could not wish for anyone better or more thoughtful and caring.

Of course the OP is political.

This could happen under any government. People may need to be cared for in an appropriate setting where more specialised is available according to their needs - and they are not called 'institutions' these days.

more specialised care

The choice is not necessarily only between own home VS institution. I had to visit and inspect a wide variety of provision for adults with learning disabilities and found that small group homes often seemed to provide a happy medium. Maybe only 4 people could live together with their own rooms of course and shared funding and staffing. I met many happy individuals in such homes as well as as ageing parents who were relieved that their family member was settled and safe.
The other successful model that impressed me was the Steiner one. Its not for everyone but for those who suit that lifestyle it's wonderful.

DN lives in her own bedsit in a group of similar homes and with support can live independently. She has a full social life and is very happy.

I was sad to read the story about Alex in Islington and feel that there is a lot more help available that she is not receiving. Or perhaps Islington is not good at providing services for the disabled, which is surprising as it is Jeremy Corbyn's own constituency.

The choice is usually the other way round, disabled people, especially those with learning disabilities, being 'encouraged' to move into independent living because it is cheaper, when they simply cannot cope on their own .

A member of my family has a son with severe learning disabilities and came under strong pressure to 'encourage' him to move into living alone in a flat in the community. Thankfully he did not want to move from his supported living community and his choice was supported by both appropriate professional people and by his parents who had the support of the relevant charities, but I know that their lives have been a constant battle to make sure their son is in suitable care, not put at risk by being housed in the cheapest option the council think they can get away with, regardless of the risks it places him in.

A number of vulnerable people left unsuitably living in the community unsupported have been victimised, terrorised and even killed by other people who exploited their vulnerability.

Indeed, each to own experiences, in my line of work has been fair few disasters.

People have a right to make their own choices if they and their family and friends are prepared to fund that choice or provide all the physical care needed between them.
I do not think they have a choice when they need 24 hour care with every need catered for. If they cannot wash, dress , cook and move around without help and cannot pay for that then they should not expect the state to provide that in their own home. The monetary cost would be unsustainable for every person in that position.
This is harsh, tough and unfair.
This is life.

My BIL is physically disabled, from birth, and lives in a purpose built flat with carers who call twice a day to get him up and dressed, and then ready for bed. Most of the carers are kind, friendly, attentive and professional and have become friends with BIL over the years. A few have been brusque, sharp and clumsy and have made it clear that this is "just a job and I've got to get you sorted and then move onto the next". Mercifully, these have very much been in the minority. As for the OPs question as to whether the quality of care that she witnessed was "what disabled people have to look forward to under the Conservatives", I would say that, as my BIL is now 71, he's experienced the receipt of care throughout many party political administrations and it isn't any particular party that has impacted on the quality of his care. It's the nature, professionalism and kindness of the individual care giver and that has had nothing to do with which political party has been in power at the time .

So true annsixty.

*You're supposed to be my carers. You're supposed to fit in with my needs and wants'

Unfortunately life is not like that for anyone, whether or not they need care.
Life for all is about compromising and adjusting our wants and needs to accommodate others.
No man is an island.

Vq, what the heck has this situation to do with any political party ?
Maybe you would have been happier for the carers to leave that young man alone or maybe you would have been pleased that the other 4 people who were being cared for had their wish for an outing refused because 1 young man wanted to stay in. As the carer which option would you have chosen

Annsixty is right, sadly the ideal options for disabled people are not usually financially viable. This is not to say we shouldn't aspire to it.
Smaller group homes were an excellent idea for many people but along came new thinking.. This decreed that people should live in their own flats etc wherever possible ( or even not really possible). This resulted in vulnerable people being targeted by criminals and unethical salespeople, Loneliness and neglect are common place. Some groups of people are always going to need support and it is not realistic to think that teams of carers are going to be on hand to help at all times.

DN was in a group home which seemed lovely at first but one of the other residents became quite aggressive and threatening and she was frightened. She is much happier in her little flat with her own front door but they have support on hand if needed.

Oh yes. Care needs to be given to finding the right housemates just as for anyone. I'm glad your DN has been found the right accommodation for her.