Democracy hahahaha

I really dispair of those that think the young do not have brains

I've just read your post twice GracesGran, so bloody true.

It's all about not giving in to your prejudices.

I think our generation would be very arrogant if we felt our experience was 'better' than any other persons experience young or old.
I live next to a couple of about my age and am very aware of their wholly different experience of life to mine. Young people, as LPS says have experience of being young today that is totally different to mine. In my younger days we did not have the gig economy; I did not have to decide whether my career would be protean or borderless (I didn't know what that meant either until the middle aged person I gave birth to told me). I had to decide between marriage and a career. Why do they need to know about that? The world where that was the case has gone.

You are right CardiffJaguar to say experience is important too but the fact that it differs is not relevant. The fact that some politicians could only talk to the experience of the old is.

I cannot see that experience is more important than knowledge. Some of the young value it, some don't. Some older people keep using all the tools available to research and continue learning and some ossify the learning they gained earlier. All these things count but not one single older persons vote counts for more than a younger persons - and their life is still to come. We have had the majority of ours and should allow them to shape their world and not be so arrogant as to think we could shape it better for them. We have only to look at some of the things we have allowed to be done to know that isn't true.

Cardiff, some of these kids are growing up in poverty, even though both parents work. they are experiencing education under the tories, seeing arts and sports scrapped. They work on zero hour contracts and they will never, ever have the opportunity to own their own home.

They have no experience of the the seventies, just like you have no experience of what it is like to be young in tory Britain.

metro.co.uk/2017/06/09/tories-to-form-coalition-government-with-anti-gay-marriage-dup-6697769/

I see some posters think that the young can research before voting. That is not the point; the point is experience. Most of us here can remember the 3 day week and similar problems when we were close to losing electricity for long periods. There are many examples from the past when politicians have put us in jeopardy because of bad/stupid policies and/or decisions.

There was a time when we had politicians in Westminster who were communists and were keen on Stalin and having the UK follow him. Reading about such matters can never be the same as experiencing them live.

So I maintain that it is the lack of experience that enables the young to vote for what they hear today. Politicians promises are not worth even putting down on paper. If the young got the politicians they think they would get they would have to bear the consequences. Unfortunately the rest of us would have to suffer as well.

Is that the DUP protest dj?

Their's isn't tomorrow. It's June 24th.

Fitzy, your definition of "right" is not, I believe, one that most would use. This is from a definition which I would agree with.

Right wing beliefs value tradition, they are about equity, survival of the fittest, and they believe in economic freedom. They typically believe that business shouldn’t be regulated, and that we should all look after ourselves. Right wing people tend believe they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s education or health service. They believe in freedom to succeed over equality.

In the UK the main right wing parties are the Conservative (or Tory) Party, and UKIP (who focus on the UK not being a part of the European Union). They believe that if you have more money, you should get to keep it, and buy better education and health services for yourself. They believe that businesses should be less regulated, and that the more money they earn, they’ll bring more benefits to the country. In 2008 2/3 of Tory MPs didn’t think climate change was a priority, but their leadership says it’s important. They are more likely to focus on energy security (oil and gas are set to run out very soon, and they won’t want to rely on other countries).

Personally I still lean to the 'left' and would agree with this definition:

Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. They believe in equality over the freedom to fail.

In the UK the main left wing parties are the Labour Party and the Green Party. They believe in making laws that protect women, ethnic minorities, and gay people against discrimination. They believe that we should tax rich people more to support people less well off, and they believe we should regulate big businesses so they serve people’s interests. They believe that a good welfare system means people are healthier, more able to work, and will put more back into the economy. They also typically believe country-wide tax-funded action on climate change is necessary.

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/news/2017/6/9/first-past-the-post-is-finished

Makevotesmatter running the protest.

CardiffJaguar

The national economy is NOT like home finances. Please watch the video I've just posted. It really isn't that complicated.

There is a protest tomorrow in Parliament Square against May and the DUP.

Good to know that the activism is continuing

A simple guide to the production of money:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4eGTY6RWeg

MaisieD: It is very like your home finances. If you spend more than you earn you are in debt. If you spend less you have funds left over. When spending equals income then your yearly finances are in balance.

Governments through a finance minister decide if they want a surplus or they are going to borrow. This rarely works out as planned. Some budgets are described as fiscally neutral - that is they intend to balance.

Our year on year fiscal results have been overspend and therefore an increase in the long term debt. Until we get a fiscal surplus we cannot have spare funds to reduce the long term debt. Does that help?

Luckygirl I agree

Unfortunately the Lib Dems will not dream of enter into a coalition as Nick Clegg did so gleefully last time and sold his soul.

I'm inclined to think that people's welfare is vastly more important than money
Unfortunately I think that people's welfare is dependent on money Alie
So a sound economy should be the underlying foundation of a caring society!

This is indeed not democracy - it is a total disgrace. Even conservative voters cannot have foreseen the whole country being held to ransom by the DUP. They hold all the power - 10 people determining the direction of our laws by manipulating the "government." It is dreadful.

Durhamjen: why? How? Maybe we start from the wrong end.

I think that many young people are very well informed and in many cases more so than those older people who get their information from the likes of the Daily Fail. Sun and Express. They research more as they are very au fait with the Internet .
The front pages of the Mail and Sun yesterday were an absolute disgrace besides being all lies- maybe they should be sued for Libel.! That is no way to be interacting with the public about politics. Most things are open to interpretation but blatant lying is not the way to go - most of it done by people who are using those who do not realise the implications to vote in a Govt which will help them pay less tax and benefit in other ways.

A lot of Tories are feeling very queasy about the mysogist gay hating ultra conservative and reactionary DUP holding the Tory party by the whatsonames

I thought you were bowing out for a couple of
days, Fitzy

What's important is who is right - and to my mind "right" means an economic structure which collects as much tax as possible on a sustainable long term basis and spends the money in a manner to benefit as many as possible.

But you seem to be missing out the circular nature of the flow of money. The state collects money through tax, to be spent on public 'goods' but, in the act of spending it, a great deal comes back to the state in the form of tax; either taxes on income or taxes on the profits of businesses supplying the needs of the wage earners or the needs of the services the state is providing (e.g books for schools, drugs for hospitals, raw materials for road building etc.)

Not in the forefront of most voters minds, I think.

I know that here you were referring to the state spending money for the benefit of as many as possible, but I'd also suggest that the fact that money circulates is also not in the forefront of most voters' minds. They seem to think that money government spends is poured into a bottomless pit and is never seen again.

dd @ 18.57

I agree.

I think this condescending attitude towards the lack of experience of 'the young' is ridiculous. They can be just as wll informed as older people. What is more, it's a tad hypocritical. I doubt very much if we would have liked to be told we knew nothing when we were young voters

DD, the problem with democracy is exactly as you say - everyone gets the chance to vote for their own selfish reasons. Those with money want to keep it. Those without it want the others to hand it over. There's no irony in one group moaning about the other as far as I can see. Just inevitability. What's important is who is right - and to my mind "right" means an economic structure which collects as much tax as possible on a sustainable long term basis and spends the money in a manner to benefit as many as possible. Not in the forefront of most voters minds, I think.

We are still some way from a fiscal balance year on year.

That sounds really impressive, CardiffJaguar but what does it actually mean?

Oh! And grab their houses (hopefully after they've died) and give them to the homeless. Sorted!